EP289 - Having a Stand vs Mastering the Show – Why Most MSPs Get Events Wrong with Steve Lloyd and Ian Luckett

IAN: In this episode of The IT Experts Podcast, we're going to help you master exhibitions for your MSP.

INTRO: Welcome to The IT Experts Podcast, the only podcast to help MSPs scale to 1 million, and if already there, get to five and go faster. At the end of the day, isn't it all about building a business that works for you rather than you for it? I hope you enjoy the show.

IAN: So good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Welcome to The IT Experts Podcast. Today we have got a super treat, and when I say a super treat, a treat that we have experienced this guy's expertise recently when we were out at an exhibition. And we're going to help you stand out from the crowd, generate more leads, and be that person at the show and at the exhibition that everybody is talking about. So no more mucking about, chitter chatter. Welcome to the show Steve Lloyd from Exhibition Mastery. How are you doing today, Steve?

STEVE: I'm very good, thank you very very much, Ian. Very good indeed.

IAN: Thank you. Excellent stuff. We were introduced to Steve by one of our clients. And I didn't even know people did this stuff. So if any of you are running events, if any of you are running exhibitions or trade shows, this is the show for you. Steve, tell everybody, who are you? What do you do? Who do you help?

STEVE: So my name is Steve Lloyd. I'm the founder and MD of Exhibition Mastery. We help predominantly small businesses actually do very well and present themselves and exhibit themselves at exhibitions throughout the land really.

IAN: Excellent stuff. And that's great. And as I say, one of our clients suggested we have a conversation with you. We initially had a chat with Steve about, "Steve, how can you come and help the community?" A, can you come and help and do a podcast? Which is what we're doing today. B, can you come into our community and go a little bit deeper to help the clients of the MSP Growth Hub? Which is what we do with what we call Friends of the Growth Hub. And C, I thought while we were talking to him, I'd tap up a bit of free consultancy and advice for the MSP show that we've just run in, in London. And wow, it was like so cool. So I think really, I think that, I think, let's just start at the top, Steve. Most MSPs don't like sales. Most MSPs don't like talking to people. They don't like standing up. They don't like exhibiting. But they also know that if you want to generate fresh leads, no one's going to be phoning you up saying, "Hey, I saw that post on LinkedIn," or, "Hey, I saw you out at that event," or, "You were speaking here," if you're not doing it. So there is a bit of comfort zone going around that and it stops the MSPs from doing this thing. But this is about confidence, isn't it? And what we're going to do today, we're going to give you some confidence and a plan so that you know that when you go out there you are, you're going to be confident. But do you see this all the time? How does this kind of show up normally with smaller businesses?

STEVE: For smaller businesses you have the founder operator, the founder manager led ones, where they're starting for the passion, they're passionate about what they do, and it's great because you can work with that, but they're passionate about what they do. So when it comes to them representing themselves, they don't usually, they don't have a plan. They don't have a thought about it. They want to go out there and do it. Particularly with specialist and I will say non-client facing or non-sales related specialisms like project management, like MSPs. Like even HR and those. You've got a specialism there that's really, you need to know your stuff.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: But just because you know your stuff doesn't necessarily mean you know your, you're good at representing your stuff when you're out there talking with someone who doesn't know, even know what an MSP is or what a HR or what an accountant is or those. So you tend to get the falling into the expert trap. And so when they go out there, they know what they're doing and it's just second nature to them. So that's where they end up being, which for someone like Myself, if I need an MSP I'm not an MSP expert. I can be knowledgeable enough to be dangerous. But actually when it comes to an expert, I don't know the language and terminology and the jargon, which is generally a lot of the bigger thing that happens for them. So yeah, it's helping them get that confidence to then almost dumb down their approach and then be okay with it. So that they can then talk with people, they can actually engage with them and start that full conversation.

IAN: Love it. And do you know what? The best bit about this, and you're going to love this, MSPs, the best bit about this is that the advice that, that Steve gave us when we've been to this recent exhibition was less is more. And it didn't cost us, it cost us a little bit more, but it didn't cost us a ridiculous amount of money more, because it's just about the visuals, isn't it? Steve you've got a system and a process, haven't you? Let's just talk through that rather than what I normally do is jump in and get all excited. Let's just talk through where do most people start off with their exhibitions? What do most people do wrong? And then let's give them the framework so they can do it right.

STEVE: Sure. There's a number of common mistakes people make, especially if you are not used to exhibiting. It depends on the type of exhibition that you're that you're attending. So you did a big one at where was it again? The NEC?

IAN: Excel.

STEVE: Excel, sorry.

IAN: At that one. Very good exhibition.

STEVE: It was at Excel, which is usually lots of various different kind of set up. There's a bit of support there and all of that, and so what you tend to have there is just a shelf scheme, basically. Just a space with some walls. On smaller, more local exhibitions you are in a hotel area, and you might just have a space, but what you're also given is a table and chairs and that. So what's the biggest mistake I've seen is that people turn up to these things, and they just accept what's there. They think that's actually the case. So what you end up having, because the MSPs are not the only ones in the same boat. Most people are. What you end up having is most people there with a couple of roller banners, the table, the chairs. You fill the table out with all of your different literature and all of this, and you might have an iPad or a tablet or some kind of screen or something, maybe showing something that might possibly be interesting to passersby and you sit down, and you're waiting for people to then come to you. And it is the biggest, it is the biggest mistake I actually see is people, they just accept what they've got. They think there's a table, so they must fill it. When you fill it, it just becomes confused and you it becomes unclear. The table takes up most of your space. You can't interact with anyone, and if you're sat down, you've got that height difference. And a table just acts as a big barrier. So that's the main thing around, is not owning your space, because you're renting this space. I have a really good story that will illustrate that in a little while.

IAN: Yes.

STEVE: But the other thing, and this is my pet hate, this is my biggest pet hate and I was about to say sworn at people, but I'm far more professional than that. I have actually told people off, if you like, that there are where you have the dreaded goldfish bowl and a champagne competition.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: Goldfish bowl and champagne competition. Put your card in the goldfish bowl, you could win a bottle of champagne. What the hell has that got to do with in your case, an MSP-

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: Your business whatsoever? Unless you're selling champagne, how on earth is that memorable? How on earth does that actually relate to it? And actually having a... and how is that attracting the right kind of of contacts that you need? Do you want people that actually need your service, or do you just want to collect cards? Because that's what champagne does. Yeah. It's also a little bit exclusive, because there's been a much greater rise in things like people choosing not to drink from an early age. You've got the the faith aspect and people whose faith doesn't, they don't drink because of their faith. So how can you engage those? Because they also might be your target customer. So there's an in-depth level on that one, really.

IAN: It's just interesting, isn't it? That's the standard. You walk in there, and we saw it last week, people sitting at the back of their little booth just like waiting for someone to come up. The banner's and everything shoved at the back of the back of the the exhibition. And everybody looks the same because, in your case a lot of these trade shows are done at hotels and conference centers. That's the way that the conference center want it laid out.

STEVE: Totally.

IAN: Which doesn't mean to say that's how you've got to lay out. You're not going to go radical and start doing things all crazy but that was that's some of the problems, isn't it, that you, that we see all the time.

STEVE: Yeah. At the end of the day, you're given power, and so there's lots of different options that you can do with that. It is usually the two roller banners, the tables, and all that kind of stuff. You can make, you can use your roller banners. They can be good. I'm not a big fan of roller banners, but they do serve a purpose especially if you are on a budget.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: But it's how you then get it designed, all of those other different kind of stuff. Anything that you see can be improved.

.IAN: What's some of the dos and don'ts around the roller banners and that messaging? We have on ours name of the business, which is quite interesting, because it does what it says on the tin. People come up and go, "What is it you do?" It goes, "Oh, we grow MSPs." And they go, "Okay, got it." Something like that. But not everybody's that in that position. And then we've got a tagline under it. It's going, "Helping you scale to a million. If you're already there, helping you get to five faster." That's quite clear. On what they want. And I was quite pleased actually when we spoke. You didn't make any changes to that, which is good, because that's what all of our banners say. Yeah the thing that... So number one what do we need on the banners? And another thing I just want to layer on top of this is that you said to me, "We need to create this environment so people know what it feels like to work with your business," which I thought was really important. So how do we mix the feelings and also the the wordage on those banners to make people magnetic?

STEVE: Yeah. I think it's like a recipe of a really lovely cake. You can great. You can have great individual aspects of that, but it's only the way that you then put them together do you then get a fantastic cake at the end of it. And it's the same kind of thing. So on banners, there's a couple of there's some really, some basic stuff. One is to know what it is you are doing, and why you do it, and who it's for, and the and what people should do next. Keep that really simple. We are goldfish, and we look at something and if it resonates with us quickly, we will then act on it. If it doesn't, we'll just move on. So simple, and which then goes onto the design. Nice, simple, on-brand, not complicated. It's just really, it's just enjoyable to look at. And another really simple one on roller banners is that roller banners are about two meters high. If you do end up with a table, or if you do end up with something else, your contact details aren't at the bottom or they shouldn't be.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: They should be nearer the top. Yeah. Because that's actually the thing. When you talk with someone, you look at their face. You don't look at their shoes as you approach, you look at their face down to their shoes and then back up again. But you don't focus on that bottom third. So any kind of important information on there just gets lost. So I always say top middle, that's your main stuff. The top is your main, really important things. Your middle part is backing up what you say. And the bottom third is pretty pictures. The designers I work with hate me saying that but that's basically what it is.

IAN: Do they need to have a slogan on it? Because, some MSPs, they put on there, "Best in class IT support. For me, you'd look at that and you'd go what does best in class IT support mean? Should it say something like, "Keeping you safe and secure"? Should it be, should there be a towards statement or a away from statement? What's the kind of the key magic sauce for the main catchphrase?

STEVE: It's we're getting more into the branding side of things and actually how your business is positioned. And so I call it, when I do my interventions with the companies I call it what's your secret sauce?

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: What's the thing that you do above all else that, in the room, someone goes, "They're the expert on that"?

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: Excuse me. I know about customer journey and about sales process. But when I walk into a room of sales professionals, they look point at me and go, "That's the exhibition master." Because that's the thing that I really know about.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: The client that we mentioned beforehand has got a, is passionately obsessive about cybersecurity.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: To the I've got goosebumps thinking about just what he was doing. Mainly because of the horror stories that you told me.

IAN: I know, yeah. Tell me about it.

STEVE: What he wants to do with those kind of things. So on his one, it's all to do with around the cyber stuff. So you then craft something around, and that's your theme and focus. You craft something around that theme, that focus around what it is that you're doing. So for them it's like they do all of the MSP stuff, let me talk to you about cyber.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: Let me talk to you about your security. Let me talk to you about the things that we're doing. And I know that's where they're progressing down. They've done some and they're using that as an expanding thing around doing talks with police and doing talks with the cyber element of other security firms and all of this, and it's fantastic because it's also their wheelhouse. It's exactly where they should be. And that the psychological reason for doing that is because it's so natural to you. That's exactly where it is. You can't... When you're that passionate about something, you don't lie about it.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: There's no snake oil or anything.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: It's just genuinely authentic and all this, and actually the issue is reigning them in.

IAN: Excellent stuff.

STUART INTERRUPT: If scaling your MSP is your goal, but you're not sure which road to take, then you'll really want to get hold of the MSP Growth Guide. It's the shortcut most MSPs wish they had much earlier on to work out what the right support is for them. Even better, if you like meeting up in person, why not come to join us at one of our live events? See the system, meet the people, get inspired, get to kick the tires, and see exactly what we get up to at the Growth Hub. So details are on the show notes below. Go have a look, click, and come and join us, and we look forward to seeing you another time. But let's get back to the show.

IAN: Thanks, Stuart. Where do we need to start then with this? Where do we need to start planning the the, your centerpiece out?

STEVE: A lot of people focus on the stand. The stand is part of it. And we have something called the exhibition life cycle, also known as the exhibition bow tie. You'll have the graphic so you can then show.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: And basically the exhibition life cycle is a four piece element really, and it's prepare, promote, execute, and then follow up. So preparation, most people do some form of preparation. Even if it's just, "Okay, we need new roller banners. We need to buy a prize. We need to book hotels. We need to make sure that people are ready. We need to do it." The problem most people do is they do it far too late. The longer you've got a chance to prepare, the more risk you mitigate at that particular time. And when you're doing that preparation, you're going into a whole huge other area where you're looking at, okay, so I'm preparing now not only for the logistics, but I'm also preparing for the other execution aspects of it as well.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: I'm getting a designer in, I'm getting the brief done. I'm also preparing my follow-up and the follow-up process.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: Very much up front. And that's really key. The more you prepare what you're aiming to do with the preparation is to walk into the the exhibition hall with zero surprises. You have nothing is a surprise to you. You don't need to use that mental capacity to then be able to then solve problems. And especially for specialist operators, you are operating outside of your normal parameters, so it's more stressful in the first place. So the more you can reduce that, the more fun it becomes, and then so on and so forth. That's key and if only people do much more preparation than they think, then they will have a better show, full stop.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: The second one is about promotion, and there is the you are renting a space. It is your pop-up shop, and there is a little my shopping center story, which kind of illustrates this rather well. Shall I share that now with you, actually?

IAN: Go for it.

STEVE: So imagine you're not an MSP, but you have something that sells widgets. Let's just call it the widget shop. And actually, the widgets are going to be the best thing for everyone ever on the run-up to Christmas. I live near Milton Keynes. It's a great shopping center. It's very busy over Christmas. Milton Keynes' shopping center approach you in saying, for two days, you can have a shop on our, one of our busiest areas. Footfall is absolutely huge. You can have it. You can have this shop. You've got some power, you've got some internet, but you just got this space. Okay, so in you go, and it's going to cost you X. Let's say it's 5,000 pounds for the two days. Are you just going to turn up with a couple of roller banners- a bowl of, a bowl ready to collect some business cards, and some champagne, with some stock? You're going to put the stock out on the table, and then just hope for the best that people are going to come in. the short answer on that is no.

IAN: Hopefully not.

STEVE: What you'll get ... yeah. What you are going to do, because you know that this is a really fantastic opportunity for you. This the widget's going to be the best thing. It's going to be the most popular thing out. So you're going to do some pre some pre-launch marketing. You're going to actually then create some promotional stuff. You're going to then hire thing, people in so that when it comes to executing those two days, it's going to you're going to create a buzz and excitement. You're going to dress and merchandise the what-nots out of your store to make it the most inviting place in, so that when you're in a, an area where lots of people are aiming for that Christmas present money, you are the most appealing. You're going to train your staff that they can actually understand selling. So they know how to sell, they know how to upsell, they know how to behave in terms of customer service. They can engage with people quicker. They can get people excited with that kind of stuff. And you're going to have competitions on the run-up to it, and during the day you're going to get some local media in because yours is the next big thing for Christmas, and you're really going to actually go to town on that because your 5,000 pound, okay, needs to then translate to something else. And the opportunity that you've got is huge. So then when it comes to all of that, and then it comes to the end of those two days, you've then got additional ways to do it. You've got them on a customer journey. You can follow them up. You can then add, sell them spare batteries, cases all of those other different things. Depends whatever it is you're selling. So the moral of the story really is that actually if you're going to an exhibition, what you are doing is you are making a pop-up shop in a pop-up shopping center. The shopping center happens to be for at the MSP show the MSPs, and that's where your target audience is. So you're in the right place in the first time but you've also you've done something that actually really elevates you up because you are approaching it like a retailer, like an activation, that kind of stuff. Lot of work, lot of effort involved but the payback on that's massive because that keeps on going after than just a a goldfish bowl and web search-

IAN: Absolutely and a bottle of champagne.

STEVE: Yeah, a bottle of champagne, yeah. And in terms of the life cycle, I alluded to what the people do and they execute it on the day. You make sure you, you prep, you practice with your stands. You know what the stand looks like. You train your staff. You've got things ready. You're managing that process on the more practical side. So who's got breaks where and when? Where are we going to get food? Who's got water? How are we going to make sure that we're live? What stories are going to we tell? What case studies do we have? Have we practiced those? What's it like? How do you then approach people? Are you getting closed down? Where do you position yourself in much of your knowledge and actually showing that off. And then, yeah. And then after the event is that follow-up and that's where the real key is. You can do all of that kind of stuff, and then if you just sit on the leads, it's waste of money. So getting in contact with them and doing things appropriately, taking good notes when you execute, and then following up afterwards with the right kind of conversations. If you've had a conversation to do with something that's specific, someone absolutely hates Apple, absolutely loves a particular kind of laptop or tablet- that they've got, then refer to that because you're trying to be memorable. I talk a lot about shoes because I like shoes. I've got some fantastic looking shoes. It's quite helpful because it helps them relate the shoe things to me, because when I then go back and then have the conversation with them, and I'm like, "Yeah, you were the one wearing the DMs" or "Actually, you had the embroidered things on there" or "You did the custom painted Converse, yeah, I was the one with the shiny purple shoes. You remember?" "Oh, yeah, I remember those." And it's just breaking those things down.

IAN: Yeah. Making it memorable. Let's talk a little bit about, the ultimate purpose of being at the show. You just mentioned selling widgets in Milton Keynes, for example and rehearsing with the team and everything like that. And we did that, and we always do that as this is the purpose of the show. The purpose of the show is to get into conversations with people who we could possibly help and then we follow it on moving forwards. The purpose of a show for an MSP is not to sell managed services, is it?

STEVE: It depends.

IAN: Directly. Directly, no. Directly at the show. No one's going to come to the show and go, "Oh good, I'm glad I'm here. I need to sign up to this." So what I want to do in this next bit, Steve, is just help them to break down-

STEVE: Yeah ...

IAN: the ultimate... success for this show looks like blank.

STEVE: Yes. So this comes under the preparation element of the life cycle. It's really defining, it's one of the first things that we do. It's defining the first it's defining the first...

IAN: KPI, isn't it?

STEVE: Yeah. And really understanding, okay, what it is, because everything then actually relates to what's going on after that. So it's the theme and the focus. It is the, it's that one thing. Like I said, it goes back to that secret source thing. If you've got that secret source and you understand what that secret source is, then that's what your aim becomes from it. Okay. So our secret source is cybersecurity. What we're looking to do what things do we have, what products do we have that are what products do we have that are going to be relevant to this and actually then useful for it, because that's the one thing that we push. So you pick one, one element from that in terms of the theme and the focus, and the one thing that you can follow up. You have everything else that you can then talk about, but you keep that one thing.

IAN: Okay.

STEVE: So if it is about cybersecurity, for example, and you're doing a series of road shows, some of them online, some of them face-to-face then the objective is to get as many contacts on those road shows as possible so that you can then share that out. If it's the fact that you've got a new product that you're actually launching and you all want to fill up a wait list is a really good thing to have at a, an exhibition, then you have the, You can then collect all of those, all of the contact details ready for when you then launch, which also means you then send it's almost a second exhibition.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: The first exhibition is seeding the second one because then you go, "Oh, yeah, you know we talked about this and this is really exciting."

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: I'm going to feed you, drip-feed you stuff that makes you go absolutely bonkers for it.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: There's are several people online that do that really well. And if you apply that to your own elements from there, actually then creating that that excitement, and I'm sure these are the things that you actually can work with them to do. Then when it comes to them launching that next part, they're launching with almost pre-sales.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: Ultimately, it does break down into you either want sales, leads, or awareness.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: And the awareness basically then comes into how do we get names, how would we get contacts.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: And then getting the right ones.

IAN: Okay, cool. Standing out from the crowd. Various different things. We have this really fancy wheel of fortune which in actual fact we bought about four years ago. We had it designed for us about four, four, five years ago. It wasn't cheap. But what it did do very interestingly at the MSP show is it made every other wheel of fortune look like it'd just come out of a cracker because it was really good quality. So investment in that. And people just want to spin it just for the sake of spinning it. there was people there with, obviously all their merch, and then you've got some people playing games and things like that, Mario Kart and various other bits and pieces. What's the showstoppers? What's some of the best things the, that people can put on their stand that will stop people, get them to go, "Oh, this looks interesting"? Because it's about stopping people walking by while they're quickly scanning because they don't want to look at you because they're worried that you're going to sell something to them. But you want to create that pause, don't you? What's the dos and don'ts around that?

STEVE: Oh, I'm going to be a bit controversial here. You have very well-trained staff.

IAN: Oh, okay.

STEVE: Because an engaged, someone you can engage with to have that conversation. You don't want everyone, unless you have got a product where you want everyone.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: You don't want everyone. So a you have well-trained staff that can qualify, that can engage. If your competition is something that's fun but not relevant to what you do, you'll have a lot of lead sifting to do-

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: I was at a show, the British Business Show a few years ago. I was working with a particular company. Next to us was another company based in Northampton. They did a lot of work with Formula One guys and all of that, so they actually had a Formula One simulator there, which was brilliant because you had... on the first day, there were people there that were actually genuinely looking for what they did, and to be able to then... And it was a nice bit of fun. It looked cool. It was a proper rig, and they had that chance to do it, and they worked that room because as they came in. On day one they had someone that was qualifying them before they let them actually sit into the, to the simulator. On day two, that person wasn't rooted in. Big mistake. And so anyone that came out, said, "Do you want to have a go?" "Yeah." So we had all of the motorsport students that all know how to race. And are, like living like simulators. And so all of a sudden these, what seemingly looked like good times, were like 10 seconds off the pace, it was something ridiculous.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: So you can use anything. There's I find that there's the stuff that gives you a personal interaction is good. Putting someone in front of a screen means you've lost them. If you're going to then do a driving simulator.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: The driving simulator takes effort and concentration, and s- and you're just focused on that, so you're not... So you've got to wait for that person to finish their lap before you have the conversation, by which time they're all excited about the lap they've just done.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: And it doesn't really work. So having people that can actually engage. I'm a real fan of close magic. And actually having okay, someone doing card magic and everything. There's a gentleman that I've had the pleasure of seeing multiple times in London. He's Magic Man London, he's called, David. He's fantastic. He has this thing called the stick trick, where he has this this stick where he puts writing on it, and it just disappears and comes back. The looks on people's faces, but he will also then weave whatever your theme is into the tricks that he's doing in terms of a story, so he's a fantastic storyteller as well. And so when you've got those people there that are like absolutely amazed, during that time he can then, someone like him, they're worth their weight in gold and then draw them in saying, "You need to have the conversation." But his confidence level's huge, so he'll stop anyone and everyone-

IAN: Yeah

STEVE: during the tricks actually to be able to do it. So...

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: Other things, Wheel of Fortune, all of those different kind of stuff. The main thing around that is tha it, it's representing your brand, so is it quality? You've invested in it. It looks good, feels good, sounds amazing. It generates an actual feeling and an experience. For others, if they've bought it from, I don't know...

IAN: Temu.

STEVE: Yeah, somewhere like that, and they've got... and they're just mass produced. They're almost single-use toys, then it will show. And you want your brand represented well, and if you've got cheap stuff on there what subconscious message does that come across?

IAN: Yeah. It's how you do anything is how you do everything, isn't it? You know, the most important thing, and we actually didn't really get rid of that much merch. Stuart piled up a whole load of it on the van, but we didn't get rid of it because people just want to come and see, can you actually help me. I'll take some pens and pads as a reminder of the conversation that we had and everything like that. But it was... it's until the kids come in from Accountex next door, you don't lose all the merch, and that's why you keep it, keep it-

STEVE: Absolutely. Yeah.

IAN: Just last but not least, just before we wrap up, let's just have a quickly just talk about prizes. What's a good thing as a prize, a top prize, or something to bring people in that's going to be valuable for them to continue the conversation and give you... hand over you their contact details?

STEVE: Exhibition stand prizes people go two ways. Either it's big and expensive, and it's worth doing because it's a hamper from Fortnum & Mason's or a really expensive bottle of champagne. I don't... I disagree with those completely. You can weave stories around them to make them relevant, but ultimately, it... that's a no-no. An exhibition is a business development process. It is an activity you are doing to win leads to win business, to get the right people through the doors. Therefore, if you've got a really lovely prize, you're going to get everyone's business card.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: That's not what you want. When you go to an exhibition, you want to be talking with the people that are going to buy, that are in the right position they're the right size, they've got the right shape, they-

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: Need, et cetera. So all of your competitions should be a way of, for me, for a way of experiencing what you do as a company for the, your customers, so at no risk for them, they can then experience just how damn good you are.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: Now, if that might well be win a free space or win two free spaces to the next cybersecurity workshop that we're doing if we're talk dealing with, as MSPs. It could well be bring yourself and a guest to the AI summit that's being run here.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: That we're sponsoring as a company. It could be all of those different kind of stuff. But ultimately what you're getting them to do is bring them into your world. Okay? And your world is an MSP.

IAN: Yeah.

STEVE: So anything that's to do with that, you could win training on how to create up an AI agent to then produce one of the things from that. All of those different kind of things. But what it does is it gives the opportunity to show your expertise to really bring them on board to your way of thinking. And it builds massive amounts of credibility and trust because at the end of the day, you're going to work really hard to be able to then do it.

IAN: Absolutely.

STEVE: And actually woo these things. And it's part of that follow-up process.

IAN: Brilliant stuff. Steve, we could talk all day, which we can't. I'd love to, but we can't. We're going to have to.

STEVE: Oh yeah, you already had enough free consulting, consult down there.

IAN: Hey, look, I think there's... I think there's a good thing that are going to happen here. We're going to have another conversation inside the MSP Growth Hub.

STEVE: Yeah, for sure.

IAN: So thank you very much for your time preparing and today's show. For anybody out there I know that you do, this is shameless plug moment, right? Because I know that you do consult, this is, it's your business. You do consultancy around this. So either a, just a run through and let you know what you can do all the way up to kind of like fully managing. I know that you've, how do people get in contact with you if they want to continue the conversation and use your amazing skills to help them get some more leads?

STEVE: So the best place to actually get in contact with me is exhibitionmastery.com, and then /biolink. I'll put the link with you so you can then put it on there.

IAN: Yeah. Pop that in.

STEVE: On there is all of the ways that you can actually get in contact with me, with phone, LinkedIn, all of that. And there's a couple of really cool things on there as well. There is an are you exhibition ready quiz. Oh, nice. And that quiz is a quick assessment. It's and it shows you where you are strong and where you are not so strong about the exhibition life cycle. So the key is to be brutally honest with yourself about this. And it goes into a bit more of a detail than we have done on the call. So you get a really good reflection from that, and that's my gift to you, because it shows you where you can then improve and improve quickly for those. And that can also take you to other ways. But yeah I'll make sure that the link is in the description.

IAN: We'll put it in the show notes. And you take that quiz. Have a look at it. Yes, we did it. We thought we were doing all right, and then we realised we did need another conversation. And then there's loads of different things that you can do to help MSPs and other businesses as well with their exhibitions. Steve, loved this conversation, loved having a chat. Great to meet you. We're going to do some really interesting things, I'm absolutely certain. But in the meantime, once again, yeah, thanks very much, and look forward to catching up with you soon. You take care.

STEVE: Indeed. Thank you, Ian. Appreciate it.

IAN: Cheers.

NEXT WEEK TEASER:  And I've just got to tell you about next week's show. You're going to absolutely love it, because we've got our leadership coach, Julie Hutchison, and also Mark Stevens, one of our clients, back in the podcast lounge, where we're talking about the impact of your self-awareness and how it can only, not only improve your team, but also your business and your own wellbeing. You're going to love it. Check it out next week.

OUTRO: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Just before you go. And if you're curious about how this episode links with the ability to scale your MSP to a million, or, or if you're already there, accelerate to five, then we want to invite you to come and take the MSP Mastery quiz. And in just three minutes, you're going to get a 360 degree scan of your business, where you can identify the one or two tactics that can help you find more time, engage and align your people, and help generate more leads in your MSP. It's really simple, just click on the link in the show notes. And if you have enjoyed this episode, we'd love to get some feedback from you by means of a rating review on Spotify or iTunes or your podcast platform of choice. We really appreciate every single one of them. Now you can go and enjoy the rest of your day, and we look forward to catching up and connecting with you soon. All the best now.