EP168 - So You Think You’re Busy! - Getting Out of Overwhelm with Claire Jenks & Ian Luckett

INTRO

In this episode of the IT Experts Podcast, we're going to help you get unstuck and gain focus with Claire Jenks.

Welcome to the IT Experts Podcast, the only podcast to help MSP's scale to 1,000,000 in if already there get to 5 and go fast at the end of the day. Isn't it all about building a business that works for you rather than you for it? I hope you enjoy the show.

So, good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Welcome to the IT Experts podcast. Today is a really, really important podcast and probably every single MSP, every single business owner I think needs to listen to. We're going to help you get unstuck and gain focus. And we have brought to the one and only Claire Jenks, the MSP's implementation psychic, into the show today. Good morning, Claire. How you doing?

CLAIRE

I'm very well, thank you it's great to be here.

CLAIRE

Thanks very much Claire, for being here and helping us prepare for the show, because this is a really, it's taking a little while to get you on this show actually because of your air miles, you've been racking up of late. But really important show today both you and us hear a lot about MSPs getting overwhelmed, getting into being busy, being busy, particularly some of the smaller guys, and we're going to help you get unstuck today and get focused and work out where to start and work out what to do and to get a bit more fun. Spend more time. Bit more freedom and a bit more money, so unless people don't know who you are, Claire, which then in that case, if they living in the channel they must be living under a rock. Claire Jenks, tell us who you are, what you do and. Who you help?

CLAIRE

Yeah, of course. So you've read, put my name out there. Claire Jenks. I work with MSPs to help them get out of their own way with less overwhelmed, more momentum without doing it by themselves. So essentially jumping into the driving seat and getting stuck into their business, implementing all the tasks and projects, quite often fall to the bottom of their pile to help them move forward with their business.

IAN

And it's such a it's such an important thing as well, because, you know, we're both on the same side of the coin where we're looking and supporting MSPs to become better versions of themselves, building businesses that work for them, not for it building their confidence, whatever it might be. And it's transformation, isn't it for many MSPs, when you get that bit and they look back and they go, Oh my God, I can't believe what I've achieved in the last six months, 12 months, whatever it might be, and it's just around that change, isn't it? But particularly for MSP and it's really interesting, isn't it, Claire? Because, you know, MSPs not necessarily have several of the smaller guys, but also the bigger guys as well can get completely overwhelmed with the amount of work that they've got going. And we're going to cover off some tactics on how to help you with that. But what is it you see? What is it you see that the typical challenge and the problems and the fears that MSP have these days.

CLAIRE

I'd say probably some of the fears is that they're not doing enough, but they haven't got the time to do it and they end up in this cycle of trying to get stuff done, not having the time trying to be there for their team, trying to grow their business and just, it's a bit of a fear of themselves sometimes of not performing and not doing everything they should be doing, which doesn't help with that overall.

IAN

No. So they feel sometimes that they're busy because, if they're not busy, what I feel, I hear sometimes and the reason I say. I feel, I hear it is because no one has directly said it is that. If, for God's sake, somebody gave me some space in my day, what am I going to do with it? And there's a worry, isn't there? That if you, if you're sitting there and you haven't got anything to do, then you don't look like you're a busy business owner and all that kind of stuff, isn't it? It's a really funny place.

CLAIRE

Absolutely it is. It's that being comfortable with sitting and going ohh, got some free time. It's uncomfortable, so they don't like it and they will fill it with something. Rather than potentially looking after themselves or putting it into their best use of that free time.

IAN

That's right. And also, like when they're it's like when they've got projects. That need to get implemented and need to get started sometimes or particularly not really technical projects, but you know if you've got anything to do with growing the business, you know which is, which can be quite difficult for some, for some MSPs they just don't know where to start do way and they then end up in this mental block and they end up ohh the phones ringing. There's a technical problem I need to go and deal with. I'm going to go and I'm going to go and I'm going to go and deal with that. How do you help people get started, Claire?

CLAIRE

Yeah. So the first thing I tell them to do, when they're especially in that moment when they don't know where to go or where to start, is to actually stop and take a pause and take a step back, which seems counterintuitive.

And it's really hard because you say it's that uncomfortableness of stopping just to work out where they are, what they actually need to do and how that looks and what does success look like for them that day. Never mind. In three months, six months, a year, 10 years down the line. That day, what do they need to get to do, what do they need to get done and what can they get, what can we actually achieve in that day, and what does that look like in a small, tiny, tiny, tiny form rather than these big, overwhelming things. And I was working with the client the other day about I have to get the website done, that's huge that you don't know where to start with that. Once worth project, but that was on the list and it's good.

Okay, let's take a step back. Let's just pause for a second. What's the next thing to do? Is it hiring a web developer? Is it just wire framing it out? Is it writing a list of the pages that you want on that website? What does that look like? Rather than looking at this big, unachievable goal? Which doesn't help again with that. Overall it just gets it back in that cycle, makes them stop, doesn't push them forward, they pick themselves up. And now, like you say, the phones rang and they're off to go and do that.

IAN

That there's a funny thing in there. There's kind of an unwritten rule in the Growth Hub that you never mentioned to me. That you're doing your website because, I will always challenge pretty much every MSP if they want to do their website, there's a pretty good chance they're going to want to do it for vanity reasons because they think it's crap and they don't think it's working, right. When in actual fact, if we just focused on maybe a little bit of new business or increasing the profitability or efficiency of the business, you'll then be able to spit out quite easily, you know a couple of 1000 lbs without any worry and you can get someone to take care of the whole thing for you, the whole kind of kind of doing. Which leads me on to a bit about procrastination, and I'd be interested to get your view on this.

But I was reading this book the other day and it was it, you know, you read a book and you, like, pick out two or three things. And that's the only thing you remember. And then you might read it again in the years time and you pick out some other stuff. This was really key and basically this guy was saying, that when you procrastinate, you're actually starving your brain of all the good endorphins. Because if you actually achieve a goal, if you set a goal, you achieve a goal, you go out there, you do that goal, you, you know you, you hit the target, you get this dolphin rush, it's brilliant. And you want to do it again. It's like a drug, isn't it? You know? And you're feeling really good. I've had a great day today. You know go home and all that sort of stuff and you're in a great place. Whereas if you procrastinate, you end up in this fear, in distress, in this Oh my God, I can't do that. Ohh. I've got to do this. I've got to do that.

Was it Tony Robbins says he says move your should to your must. You know should do this. And I might do that and I all that crappy language, you know that just puts negative chemicals into your brain. And when I was listening to, I thought that is so cool. I mean, it's so true. But no, I've never even kind of thought about it like that before. And it was just like such a wicked kind of analogy. So procrastination, Claire, what's your kind of view on why do, how do we stop people from procrastinating? Is it a confidence thing? Is it a hereditary thing? How? How can we blame someone else for this thing that I do.

CLAIRE

Yeah. Well, I actually call it procrasti-faffin because most of the time procrastinating. I have a vision that they're just sat there doing nothing, but actually they are. They're moving stuff around the screen or they're moving stuff around their office, so they're just faffing around, but it makes them feel busy. And I got that from my own accountability group. Progressive bathing. Now I see it happen all the time. Yeah. And just to come back to your point on the shirts. Really trash.

IAN

Faffing what is a new word? If you could get that on the terms.

CLAIRE

There's another way of reframing it is if I should, I'm changing that to I get to, so I get to do this rather than I should be doing that because it makes it feel like ohh this is an opportunity for me to be able to do this thing. Help someone help myself, help the business, help their employees whatever it is. So it's interesting you've brought that up because should puts you straight into or I'm being told off by someone else to do and do. It puts you into a completely different frame of mind around it all.

IAN

Yeah, yeah. And I remember our good friend Richard Tubb. He was on a podcast with me once and he told me off because I said to him, it's good to get into this good discipline and he goes, no, no, no, we can't use the word discipline. I said, why not guess this negative it's, you know, it's someone standing there foot on you and you know routine is what we should be using. Let's get into a routine. Let's get into a healthy habit. You know, whatever it might be. And it might sound all a bit woo wooing a little bit. Oh, well, it's the same bloody thing, isn't it? No, it isn't it. Cause it's a different, it brings in a different mindset. And if you've got this, you're sort of lying. I'm grateful that I've got this opportunity to get some stuff done. You know, and I've got the space to do it and I can relax that I'm not earning money and blah blah blah and all that kind of stuff. Then it puts it into a real different place, isn't it? So we could chat about this sort of stuff all day long. I'm absolutely...

CLAIRE

Ohh burned.

IAN

But look, let's have a let's have a chat first thing we were going to talk about today was so overwhelming. Burnout are some pretty big words, I think, and it's a bit like that stress word that we use as well and it's and the thing to I think the thing to recognise to start with is that, those words mean a lot of different things to different people. You know, there's a lot of stuff going on around, you know, people's mental health and what healthy mental health looks like. And I might be able to handle a very different level of stress than you would be able to. I might be able to approach thingsm definitely to other people and that's why it's really important that we get, you know, different people in our teams.

It's like self and Stuart, I listen to him talking to someone the other day. Saying, you know, if you want someone with someone within the growth hub to jump around on stage and to go and be energetic and add some energy into people and stuff, he says I can do it, he says. But Ian would do it in three seconds and it will take me 3 hours to get. Round up and you know to get himself going. But likewise you flip that round the other way, Stuart said to me, Ian, could you write an e-mail, you know, marketing e-mail or an e-mail to the clients? I could do it. But well, do you know what I just think of 100 things to do before it cause it just doesn't excite me. You know, it's just kind of not how I'm wired, so lots of you know, using these words overwhelmed. Are you busy? Are you overwhelmed? Are you going to get burnt out? Which I think is actually a bit of a medical term of just like, you know, the battery is just about to be empty. So how do we know when people are at their limit? You know, because it's like they're full, isn't it? You know, and they're and they're like, I can't do any more. I'm getting stressed. You know everyone's getting my nerves. The cat's getting in the way. You know what does? How does that present itself in people that you work with and your opinion in that.

CLAIRE

Yeah. And it's interesting that you've touched on that people are different and people stress is are different and people react very differently and people's energies work better and different situations. And so I see overwhelm come out in different ways with different people I work with, and I take it back to the freeze fight and flight response.

Some people will just freeze and they don't know what to do and they'll just kind of give everything off to their teams and they don't really know what's going on. And they just sit and don't do anything. And if they're going into their office every day, just sitting and just as they progressive buffing, moving stuff around the screen, just nothing. It's just that freeze. Then you get other people who go. I've got to get on with all of this stuff. I've got to try and do all myself. I have to just, I can't hand it off because now I'm stressed and I've got the control. So that's another kind of the way I see it come out and other people will just disappear and they'll go off to conferences or events or they'll go in network because they feel like they're busy, they're doing something, but that's their response to the overwhelm that's potentially happening in the office and there's a lady, Grace Marshall, who talks a lot about freeze, fight and flight, and how it comes out in high functioning fear.

And when I sit back and I look at it with some of the owners that I work with, I can recognise it. Sometimes they can't recognise it themselves. But that's how I see it from the outside. So to be able to then approach them to see this is what I'm seeing. This is what I'm feeling. They suddenly sit back and they go. Oh yeah, I didn't know I was doing that with the fighting it's going, I thought. I just been busy and getting stuff out. And it's, you're completely overwhelmed at the point that you're trying to control something because everything's either fallen, you feel like everything's falling down, or around you, you're at burnout stage. And so that's how I tend to see it. And when you talk about the energy at the end of the day if you're completely drained, like no battery at all. There's different versions of being tired that I see, and it's either being you're full of energy. Got loads of stuff done, but you're tired in the day. There's a difference from that to be. And no, nothing. Nothing left, no emotional energy left, no physical energy left, no mental energy left. And that's a big sign to me that they're on that journey, or potentially even already there.

IAN

And you can, you know, and it and then it'll affect your health as well, you know. And I know there's been some really nasty little bugs going around at the end of, you know, 23 early 20. For with, with, with all of that sort of stuff. But yeah, if you're, you know, if you're not fueling one of the big key focuses that that I'm working on this year is sleep to recharge, you know, refuel to recharge and strengthen with fitness. And I'm not talking about going down the bloody gym and doing you know really disrupting I need to but there's things that mean that. And I know we should make time for it in.

Yeah, okay. Right. But I do, you know, do some stuff at home. And it's like, right, okay, let's just make sure that we're keeping moving. We're keeping eating, we're recharging, and we're sleeping properly. And it makes an absolute massive difference because I'm up at 5:00 in the morning, but I'm up at 5:00 in the morning. I want to be up at 5:00 in the morning, cause between 5:00 and 6:00, I can then get a ton of work done. Super Brian Tracy eating bucket loads of frogs before anybody even gets up and the kettle goes on. Do you know what I mean? And that's how I work because then that means for the rest of the day, I can then go do what I want or choose what I want to do and for come wash the car. I can do and if I'm not going to be stressed because I've got the big rocks. Kind of like out the way. And that's working really well. But that only works really. Well, if I've had a good night's sleep and I'm feeling great when, wake up, because if I've had a couple of bottles or a bottle of or glass, sorry, let me rephrase this of the old red juice before, that’s never going to happen, you know? And I think that's a really key point about not only in the day that you mentioned there the type, but also when you get to Thursday, how are you feeling on a Thursday night, you know, cause a Thursday night? And I, and I remember when I was stressed, when I was working in court. But, you know, Thursday night you'd be dead. There's been nothing at all left in the tank at all on 3rd and Friday. It's just like a haze, you know, you've just got this, this this kind of haze that goes around you so. So what are some of the, what are some of the things that that they can do? So whenever you know if they identify if you know they always say don't they, if you think you're you think you're probably right you know if you think you're overwhelmed, if you think you're getting busy, if you think you're taking too much on what are some of the tips that the MSP business owners can do just to instantly kind of get you out of that overwhelm.

CLAIRE

So whenever I work with people that are in that state, I ask them to get everything at their head. So just write everything down just pen and paper, old school style. Just get it all out whether that's a notebook big a through whiteboard, whatever it looks like, just get it all out and then take a step back and look at it.

All that in itself is quite scary and quite overwhelming because it goes. And then get someone else to comment and go. Okay, let's piece all this together and let's categorize them and straight away that can just help to say all that because business and work and business and home life blend together. So if you can realize them, yeah, that's it. So sometimes there's a whole blend of stuff and you're trying to contact shift during the day. You're trying to think of all these things, just get it all out and look at actually what it is. And be kind to yourself and go. If this was someone else, what would I suggest to them because, yeah, I was one of my employees and they said to me, I'm overwhelmed, he said put it all down a bit of paper and they got this big list, you know, are you looking in the mirror, that's, that's a few.

CLAIRE

That's it. And then it's working out, right? What? What can I do? What will give me energy? Potentially and what can I do tomorrow? Let's use the day to just get everything out. I can say that. Pause, take a step back. Can be quite scary. Think well. I'm not getting anything done. That's more productive doing that than just keep going and going and going and then going forward. Once you've got Claire and you've potentially got some help and then we'll talk about delegating as well. And on a day-to-day basis, don't think that you've got to do everything we quite often as business owners. Set ourselves up to fail and we give ourselves 10/15/2030 plus tasks to do or big projects like I said, create a website. No three things, just three things. Focus on those things that are possible and achievable and that in itself, as you've touched on, gives you that Bose of I've ticked them off today. I've done three things today. If I want that time off, I can go and have it now, but I've achieved those three things and that starts to build up that confidence.

I am actually good at this stuff cause a lot of the time the imposter syndrome comes in. When you're overwhelmed, you go. I must be so bad at this cause everyone else seems to be coping and I'm not. But if you can just stick to three tasks each day, you might have them all done by 10 great happy days. Now, what do you choose? And you use the word, their choice. What do you choose, to go and do now. Not what you have to do. What should you be doing and that's how to, I suggest.

Anyway, there's lots of different ways, but how I suggest to get out of that, overwhelm and start to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

IN

Brilliant. Brush your go to tools for just like helping organise and helping get yourself in a bit of a get yourself in that bit of that rhythm, that routine to kind of get out of the overwhelm and get stuff done.

CLAIRE

So I suggest always using tools, potentially you already got. Don't start trying to introduce extra things. They can't go and buy more shiny stuff, although I will say once you start doing stuff, start time tracking what it is you're doing, because sometimes you don't know what you're doing and you can look back and go. I've got nothing done today you look back and go, yeah, dear, I got those, these, those three things done and what category, they fit him, they filled me with energy. So I have one of these things. Our target though.

CLAIRE

Timmy left. So if you can't see it, it's a timer.

IAN

Yeah, I've got one of them in my draw.

CLAIRE

Shouldn't be in a drawer here?

CLAIRE

Well now.

CLAIRE

That was Paul.

ian

Green got me into that. And yeah, it's still in my Drawer it looks great.

CLAIRE

Get it out.

IAN

Raffle it off. It's really at all, actually.

CLAIRE

It's just to get an insight into what you're doing and you have to remember to press a button, just click it to whichever side.

IAN

Turn over formula, isn't it?

CLAIRE

Yeah. Yeah. And that's for me, that's helped me personally. Now I'm using my time and start to organise and time chunk my days. Where's my energy? Ohh. I did that. Yesterday morning I was drained by the by lunchtime. Could that be moved to a different part of the day? What is it that I'm working on? What fills me with energy? What doesn't fill me with energy? What's the extra fire fighting that I have to cater for on a day-to-day basis, especially in this industry and that's why I always say 3 because there will always be potentially extra bits that are coming. That you that are unforeseen, uncertain, you have no idea what's going to drop on your desk and Chris Brogan, author and speaker, he shared this with me, never fill yourself up to 100% capacity in your day. So it gives you that freedom for those extra bits.

IAN

Yeah. So in terms of? And you think for Tom, don't you?

CLAIRE

Exactly. Just time to think. Time to be time to take that step back, to see what everyone else is doing, especially as an owner, because you can't help anyone else if you're not helping yourself first. And so in terms of tools and things, I'd suggest time tracking and using things like that. There's online apps, paper and pen. Write down what you're doing each day to be able to help yourself get more organised. The other one that's not quite at all, but I'm a big advocate for, is coworking. So getting people together in a room because psychologically having someone on a screen or in person I do a lot of virtual Co working helps you get stuff done. It's very bizarre. There's no talking, but they're there and they're not watching you cause they getting on with their own stuff, but it really helps. You get stuff done and I've been hosting a few of them just to just to test out the concepts within this industry. Done it kind of throughout my career with different people and it works and it's quite a fascinating thing to see and like I've done all my stuff now and it's lunchtime. It's like. Okay, how did that work? And you just sitting at your desk didn't, and it could be an internal thing. It could be external.

IAN

They're just on screen with other people, like a silent like a silent zoom meeting.

CLAIRE

Just unscrewed with the feet on.

IAN

Yeah, exactly.

CLAIRE

Started the meeting. Talk about, say, share what you're going to get done. Two hours at the end share what you've actually got done. So yeah, so.

IAN

Hey, I like that I might steal that.

CLAIRE

You're welcome too. It's a really bizarre thing that you think. Why would you sit online with people in silence? But it works.

And the last one, I guess, is using the waiting room. So those three tests on your To Do List everything else, put in a waiting room. It's not on our To Do List, it's waiting for the right time and right priority. So again, they're more tactics rather than tools, but that helps get you focused, get you moving, getting things done without thinking about everything else.

IAN

I'm one of these people. We got these really nice pads made-up for our clients and people, which is like A to do list pad which I don't like it To Do List because the To Do List is a bit dangerous because it doesn't tell you how long the task is and the importance of the task and all that sort of stuff. And then you end up picking off the things that you want to do quick to get your little indoor and rush.

But these pads are going down really well because people just really like them, like this one here. But the problem is, is that I've now got bloody tons of these all over the place and then you go. You just you're saying, I just thinking as you were just talking then right. I'm going to create myself a waiting list. But you know I'm going to do. I'm going to write down waiting list and put a few things on it and then I'm going to right, where's the waiting list? Where does it leave the waiting list? And then? Because I'm not, I am. Although I am, you know, can get stuff online and use OneNote and stuff before too long. You got so many notes. It's, it's the same thing again.

Brilliant stuff, love. Love those tips there, Claire. That's really great. So the last bit, we just want to talk about, which is the hardest part. Could be the hardest part is.

CLAIRE

Yeah, absolutely.

IAN

Getting MSPs to help them trust and delegate to their teams. No one can do it as good as me if I let my team do it, then all my clients are going to leave, I'm going to feel inferior. If I get my team, to do it blah. Blah blah. I'm sure you've heard every single excuse in the book, what's your take on this?

CLAIRE

A team as well, much better than trying to do it all yourself. Yes, you try to do everything yourself, won't help the business and won't make you grow or get to where you want to be. Yes, I hear a lot and quite often they'll try it once something goes wrong, so they'll take everything back.

IAN

No, I knew it wasn't going to work. Oh, no, it's going to work.

CLAIRE

Yeah, see, told you it wasn't working. They can't do it. So it's stepping back again. Realising what it is. What are you asking them? What was it that you asked them to do in that example?

IAN

That, yeah.

CLAIRE

Why did it go wrong? And what does it need to be able to put it right? Is it understanding the responsibilities within your team? Is it understanding the strengths we talked earlier on about different peoples energies? Everybody's got certain strengths towards different tasks, different projects, different ways of thinking. Is it that you gave someone that really didn't use their strengths very well, and how did you brief it to them, and did you share what success looks like because success for you maybe different to them, they've got. Oh, yeah. Got it done. Oh, you didn't do it this way. You didn't tell me to do it that way. I didn't know what you wanted it to look like.

Okay. It all comes down to that communication. Whether it's internal or external, it's understanding what it is that you want, what you're trying to achieve, what does success like? And I talk about this with one of my clients about what does hanging the door look like, are you just putting a door up or is it a red door with a gold knocker and a gold letterbox? And does it hanging from the right hand side or the left hand side? Has it got a glass window go into all the detail, when you're delegating, and quite often that's missed. And because it's in your head, you assume that it's in their head.

IAN

Yes. Yeah, yeah, very true.

CLAIRE

And it's not. And so now there's it's that I see that quite often go wrong and they go. Nope, not going to do it. So you don't work? I'll just take it all back. And then you bend it back in this cycle of overwhelm.

IAN

And when you've got, you know when you've explained to them how to hang the door, ask them to tell you what they're going to do to make sure they were listening. Ohh. I'm going to do this. Then I'm going to do that. And then you're going to, because otherwise they might be embarrassed or they might be ****.

I wasn't really listening then I was bloody off thinking about what I'm doing at the weekend. And missed some of the details out. That's then going to, you know, as you say you've got this, this overwhelmed circle, haven't you? And then you've got this trust circle as well, which is the, which is a massive thing where people can, you know, get stuck in the in the whole trust thing. So give me an idea for another podcast.

CLAIRE

Exactly. And one of the things you're saying before about, the delegation and the procrastination, and that's kind of holding you back from growing things. There is a quote and I can't remember off the top of my head about you not delegating deprives others of helping you. And it's around. It's not, that's not word for word, although for that.

IAN

Okay, okay. Go with that. I think that makes sense, fair changes would you put Claire Jenks after that, And it and it's and it's so true cause you stifle growth. You, you know, and people, people get up in the morning to want to grow and succeed and to be have a successful day and go to bed and go, wow. I've achieved a great deal today. And you had a good day, you know. And if you've got all these negative things going on then that you know that can affect that as well. Let alone the fact that you're tired and your battery is flat and all of those good things as well so.

Brilliant. Great one, Claire. What I want to do just to, actually, just to on that front, as if by magic and this wasn't planned. Talking about delegation to your team, I want you all the listeners here to go back to Episode 127, where I talked about the daring to delegate and this was quite funny, and it's the art of supercharging your team and it came about from a conversation that one of our clients was having at one of the eight week alignment sessions we had in here in the boardroom and he was and we were talking about delegate and then we said, well, what's the what are you taking away from this? And he said I'm going to dare to delegate. And then he looked at me and he goes there's going to be a podcast on this soon isn't there and I absolutely so.

I did a podcast on it cause it was really, really interesting. So kind of feathering into Claire's last point there about delegating. There's another episode there, episode 127. So look, this is really important the opportunity here. Just by doing some really small things and you might think that what we've been talking about today is being little and small and mind you, not really going to make much difference. But you know, how do you eat an elephant bite sized chunks? Just listen to, you know, rewind. God, how ohh this go back to the beginning of the show. Bloody hell. It's not a tape. And now I've revealed my age. Listen to it. Let me say that. Let it listen to it again. Listen to the podcast again and take some notes of what players said and just do one. If you do one thing, one if you take 10 things away and you do one thing every single day, one little, little thing, every single day you'll make so much headspace, you'll make so much time you'll be more relaxed. You'll be healthier, have more energy. You can spend it with your friends and family, etcetera, etcetera.

That's brilliant, Claire. Thanks ever so much for your time and expertise again today. What's your final thoughts? What is it that the MSPs have got to do out there? After listening to this show?

CLAIRE

I want them to take a step back, get everything at their head, write it all down, even if they don't feel like they're overwhelmed. See what it is that they've actually got in their head. Take a step back and review that then. Look at where they want to go from there. How are they going to potentially delegate? How are they going to get control over what they're doing and be successful from there.

IAN

And if anybody wants to get in contact with you today and learn a little bit more about what you do, how can they find you, Claire?

CLAIRE

You can find me over on LinkedIn at Claire Jenks or go over to my website, clairejenks.co.uk and if you are interested in doing any pro working or trying that if you go to clairejenks.co.uk/coworking-msp. You'd be more than welcome to come and join us and see if it works for you.

IAN

Ohh wow.

IAN

Brilliant. So you've got, that's that's absolutely brilliant. Fantastic. Right. We'll put all of those links into the show notes as well. Thanks again. Claire's been really great. Really good pillar episode there to help everybody get super productive this year. So I'm wishing you all the success of this year with the business and all the clients that you've got and the amazing work that you do and now I look forward to catching up with you soon.

CLAIRE

Thank you very much

OUTRO

So I hope you enjoyed the show if you did, I'd love it if you could leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. If you want to know more about how to take your MSP to a million or if you're already there go faster. Then come and join Stuart Warwick and myself in the scale with confidence Facebook group the link is in the show notes. You go enjoy the rest of your day and I look forward to connecting with you soon.