EP228 – MSP Lead Gen Secrets
with Scott Millar & Ian Luckett

IAN: In this episode of the IT Experts podcast, we're going to help you work out how to get real results from your marketing.

INTRO:  Welcome to the IT Experts podcast, the only podcast to help MSPs scale to 1 million, and if already there, get to five and go faster at the end of the day. Isn't it all about building a business that works for you rather than you for it? I hope you enjoy the show.

IAN: So good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Welcome to the IT Experts podcast. Hope you're all good wherever you are. We have dragged up an old friend of ours yet again. I dragged him out of the depths of Scotland and this MSP marketing with Scott is with us today, Scott Millar from IT Rock stars. How you doing?

SCOTT: Not too bad. You've dragged me out the garden today and that's pretty

IAN: Dragged you out the garden. It is the hottest day of the year so far. It's good.

SCOTT: ... off walls.

IAN: It's16 degrees. It's yes, you are not doing your videos in your in your greenhouse this afternoon. We're out here adding some value, to the MSP community. So look great to talk to you. We had a chat a couple of weeks ago, which was great. Great to reconnect. And we're going to talk today about how to get proper results out of marketing 'cause there is so many things out there that MSPs are doing, wasting time at wasting money at failing out. But I'm, I don't mean that by, to try and, degrade and belittle people. Because the thing with marketing as we are going to go through in this show is that it's actually a very straightforward process, isn't it? But we, or the MSPs like to complicate it and make it complex and overthink things and I'm doing all right with my referrals, but when you know that you want to really accelerate the growth, you need to kick in the marketing, there's some amazing services out there, some support out there, but there's also some fundamentals isn't there, which we're going to run through today. So before we get cracking, Scott, for those who do not know who you are, who are you, what do you do, and who do you help?

SCOTT: So IT Rockstars. We've been in the go since 2016. We're originally an MSP. And I had a big pain point when I had my own MSP and when I used to do sales for previous MSP I worked for. And that was like finding the leads, like finding people that were looking for technology services, it was really, it was quite easy once we were sat down in front of the prospects talking about their pain points that they had with their current provider or the technology that they had and their business. But it was actually just finding them. It was like the real I, the pain was just that big, that was like, I want to make a, I guess a difference in the MSP channel. And that's why IT rock stars exist today. I've always on the side done it was SEO at the time, so search engine optimization. I had my own break fix computer repair business way back many years ago. And I always did it on the side of the SEO stuff. And because of my knowledge, both from a technical perspective and that sort of sales perspective in the MSP space. I want to put these two things together, follow a bit of a passion that I have. Yeah. And leverage the knowledge that I've got. So we transform the way that MSPs scale their business. We work with over 500 MSPs around the globe, UK, US, Canada, Australia, you name it. We've seen, seven years I think at this point we've been on the go. So a lot's changed in that time. As we talk now, we've got things like ai, it's a massive opportunity for MSPs. It's a really good tool to help leverage in your marketing as well. But then there's also things you have to avoid with, AI and looking further down the road where I AI's going to get to. So that's a little bit about me. As I say, there's that pain point that I had when it really was about lead generation. Get in front of the prospects that you're looking to do business with.

IAN: Let's dig straight into what we were just talking about there. Last week we received our first lead from ChatGPT. Oh, did you? I said, how did you guys find us? They just Googled How do I grow my MSP business and up we pops and I almost fell off my chair and it was really quite interesting. These guys, they hadn't been on the website. They hadn't been on LinkedIn. Yeah. They're not active in the communities in the event or anything like that. They just literally went into little old chat GPT. Now we're going to talk about SEO in a minute, 'cause I've got a view about SEO and I'd love for you to share, some of your insights because I think you've had some quite good success with this MSPs on this, and I haven't seen the same, so it'd be good to talk about that. But AI, this is now, how much money would I have paid? Had to have paid to get, a Google result to say, Hey, who, how do I grow my MSP in the UK? Kinda do your popup. So I love ChatGPT from the marketing point of view, for sparking ideas, for coming up with different angles and different tangents on different things and all that sort of stuff. It's an absolute fountain of goodness, but it's like a cake, isn't it? You've got to put the good quality in, and if you've customized it and you're using really great prompts, you're going to get some amazing stuff out there. And, from a marketing point of view, Scott, we're going to talk about the good things and then we're going to talk about the bad things that we need to avoid as an MSP. Where can they currently use AI? ChatGPT. It'd be interesting actually to talk, ChatGPT and then you've got co-pilot, now. We tested co-pilot. It's nowhere near ChatGPT in terms of depth and kinda like marketing knowledge. But I'd love to get your view on this on what you are seeing and hearing. Are you seeing the same?

SCOTT: Yeah we'll start with that, that last one first. So the co-pilot chat co-pilot's really good in certain, for certain business processes, it's really good for search around the Microsoft 365 tenant, right? So if you're looking for someone team messaged you or sent you an email it's really good for that. This is probably not what we need to go into MSPs 'cause they probably already know

IAN: It doesn't really matter. Let's just chat.

SCOTT: They already know about this. But it hasn't really good use cases, but I'm in agreement with you from a, for that, those marketing tasks. It's not so great. And it goes off into SharePoint to try and do stuff in SharePoint when you're just wanting to do something. That's it. So there's, it is still, it's still in early stages. Microsoft keep changing it. I was using the Excel version of copilot this time, like last year, and it was just terrible. They made improvements there. But from, CHAT perspective, I'll tell you how I'm using it just now for marketing. So a really good example is this podcast that we're doing now. Okay.

IAN: Yep.

SCOTT: So I can go into my I can get the video recording on this or the audio. This, I can put it into a tool like descript. It'll generate a transcript for me. Yeah. And then I can basically just go to chat GPT and say, hey, based on this transcript generate a blog post for me. And this is the detail here. Keep as much of the original copy as possible. So this conversation that we're having here together the output of that is a blog post as a LinkedIn article, as a post for LinkedIn or something like that is great. And if you really finesse the prompts. You can get to a place where it doesn't look like AI at all, and having that, this natural interaction and then using AI is almost like a leverage point for it. That's what we are doing from a marketing perspective. Yeah, that's one of the biggest leverage points. The other one is ideation. We're going to be discussing lead magnets later on in this interview coming up with ideas for lead magnets, coming up for ideas for brilliant like sales objections, recording your sales meetings, if you're doing them in teams or if it's in person and say, how could, have I done better in this sales meeting? Some of the objections that might be coming back. Yeah, took them in and seen what AI comes back with so almost like a sounding board or an ideation board. That's how I use it. So it's more, yes.

IAN: Fantastic.

SCOTT: For that sort of higher level stuff. That's where I'm using it.

IAN: It's like a muscle though, isn't it? Because you know if, so you've got two types of MSPs. You've got MSPs who don't really give a toot about marketing 'cause they don't get it. They don't understand it, they don't get inspired by it. They don't get energized by it, and they just think, can someone else do this for me? And then you've got other, and they're generally the typical techies who don't really want to stand on stage or go network and anything like that. And then you've got the other side who are pretty, comfortable with going out and talking to people and will have these kind of sparking ideas. But you've got to keep using it to come up with, your email threads and a welcome email sequences and all of this kind of stuff. And it is absolutely right that the more you. Not necessarily train it, but the more you learn about what the ingredients and the prompts need to be, the better result you get. We are getting straight off results now from some of our efforts into ChatGPT Within, pop 'em into zero GPT just to see if they're, see if it's detected and they're coming up with 10, 15% straight off the bat. Which is amazing, right? Because it's just like that's a really good, percentage that you think it's picking up because you are tailoring that ingredients before, before you put in. How should MSPs been using, so we've been talking about it, come up with ideas. We'll probably come onto it in a minute. Any, anything else that's really good for MSPs with AI or now from a marketing point of view

SCOTT: As I say the best one that I, it's one that I always recommend is looking at your existing client base. What industries they're in, what the pain points, what line of business applications they're using. Yeah. Feed all of that stuff into ai, tell it about your business, and it starts to build up. I certainly with ChatGPT, it builds up a memory on you.

IAN: Yeah.

SCOTT: And your business.

IAN: Yeah.

SCOTT: And then you can create custom customized marketing material for the ideal type of prospect that you're looking to? Yeah. So if you're going to say for example, you run a webinar and you're looking to attract in maybe more accountants you can have, it will come back with suggestions for you on topics that you could cover the line of business applications. And you probably already know. You know what the main support issues around those line of business applications are. So that's where I see it. It's the ideation. That's the one that I see as the biggest. Yeah, I would say though is don't rely on it too heavily. Like I've got a little bad habit. When I'm scrolling my LinkedIn, I can see AI right away as soon yeah. So I just, I leave a little bot emoji...

IAN: Overuse of emojis is number one.

SCOTT: Yeah. I comment just with a bot emoji and, 'cause it's just, it's blatantly obvious, so Yeah. Just don't do that, that's my recommendation.

IAN: Yeah. Yeah.

SCOTT: I'm amazed to hear about your lead that came in through ChatGPT. Yeah.

IAN: Yeah, we were talking to a client about a month ago and he said, I've just had a lead through ChatGPT. Someone said, who are the best IT companies in this area? And I popped his name 'cause it's now just scraping the web, isn't it?

SCOTT: Google is becoming less, less relevant because of it. More people are using the AI to do searches 'cause they can get to the answer quicker.

IAN: Yes, you're right. I do. And now when I go into, whenever I'm asking a question, I don't even look at the blog posts or the internet pages or anything like that if I'm asking it to do something, some people know I like to play a bit of geek every now and then, even though I'm not technical and, home assistant and stuff like that, home automation. And I was getting in a real pickle with it. And my son just sits there and he just goes. Dad, why don't you ask ChatGPT And it's Jake, the world doesn't work around ChatGPT, you just like you need to, and then I did it and it was like this is just like amazing. Yeah. Because it's told me all the prompts. It's told me when I need to go, how to do it. 'cause all the geeks are using it. All the geeks are feeding it with this information. I did hear something really interesting yesterday. So we are March 2025, right? And I actually heard from one of the guys from IASME saying that chat GPT is currently. Working off data sets from 2020, so it's like still five years behind of information 'cause it says if you go into there and ask it to talk to you about IASME, it's actually out of date by five years. Oh wow. 'cause they've changed some of their things, which is interesting. And yes as you said, the information that goes into it is what comes out of it. And it may not necessarily be, yeah.

SCOTT: So like in the case of, the prospects found you from what I've heard, and this gets, comes maybe back to the SEO. And I'll say right now when it comes to SEO, because Google's losing its relevance. So is SEO. But yeah, it's like, how would you, I'm not going to say manipulate, but how would you get your business mentioned in, an AI prompt? From what I've heard these models are being trained on, public forum. So places like Reddit. So if your business is getting mentions in Reddit that's actually training a lot of the models. Certainly I know Reddit and Google Gemini. All the Reddit data getting mentioned there. So that's how it's been fed at the moment. So if there's a brand awareness if your company's getting mentions around the web already, it's more likely to come up in an AI conversation.

IAN: That's the new SEO, do you know what I'm going to do Scott after for this podcast? I'm gonna ask chat, GPT how it does it, and then it'll tell me, won't it? See, it might tell you.

SCOTT: Big sauce. Yeah,

IAN: It might have, but it's really interesting, isn't it? I know that you've had a lot of success with your clients over the years. With SEO we've literally had one out of 50 MSPs that's nailed, SEO, and one month you talk to him and he is really happy. The next minute you talk to him and he's crying and his beer. And it's one of these things that just takes a long time to, to get it up and running, and I don't know, where do you think SEO's going then? I know you've just alluded a little bit to it there, but.

SCOTT: SEO is certainly a longer term play and it's I think it's only a small part of the marketing equation. Don't put all of your eggs in the SEO basket. Yeah, I did that 15 years ago and I learned a lesson there with it because if you go and invest heavily in SEO and you expect to. It's going to generate your leads within the first month or two. It's not going to happen maybe within 12 months. Yeah. But you're relying very much on the algorithm. And the algorithm can change flip of a coin. So it's, I'd say it's, an element of your marketing. I don't see it as a high, it's not an important element. Okay. So that's my view in it. And you know what I see now that's certainly working from a marketing perspective. And if you think longer term, and we're talking about AI and where things are going, people are looking for more of a human connection. If I ask any of my clients, any of the MSPs that I work with, and I don't know if this is the same for you. Majority of them come back to me, ask them, where did you get your clients from? And it's people they know it's word of mouth, it's relationships. Yeah. It's quite often not through marketing. Marketing helps reduce the friction in the sales process.

IAN: Yes.

SCOTT: That's what I see. So from a marketing perspective, there are some things that work really well from the lead gen perspective. SEO can work well, but it's longer term and it doesn't work in all markets because depending on where you're located, if you're going after certain location based keywords, it can be highly competitive. There are some low hanging fruit. So you know, things like most of our audience here who are listening are probably doing things like cyber essentials. So a really low hanging fruit keyword that hardly anyone's going after right now is cyber essentials price. The cost of cyber essentials. If you go into Google for that right now, there's hardly anyone that's optimizing their website for that type of term. So there is low hanging fruit, it's lower search volume, but you can go after that and you could put in a strategy against that. But I like to, and we can go into this a little bit more detail, modern lead generation methods. It's more about human connection and building relationships.

IAN: So what is working right now then, Scott, from a lead gen point of view, either through marketing or just from a lead gen point of view for MSPs.

SCOTT: So I like to have a, there's other marketers certainly here in the UK that operate globally and they say build multiple audiences or if you're in the states, build other oil wells, that's some of the bigger markets use that. And I, my play that is Build a Power Audience. There's some lead generation tactics. One in particular that works really right now. It's on both the Meta platform and on LinkedIn, you can run a type of paid ad. It's called a lead gen ad. Now, the cool thing with lead gen ads is they're specifically designed to generate leads. The ad itself. The user, the prospect can click the ad. They don't get taken to another website. They don't get taken to another landing page. The form actually opens up within the LinkedIn timeline or the Facebook timeline, and they can fill in their details there. And then after seeing the ad so there's a lot less friction and converting, somewhere that's maybe casually. Scrolling around social media to an actual prospect that's in your CRM. The question then becomes is how do you attract their attention? How do you get 'em to enter their details? There's a lot of different methods around that. Yeah. But that's one of the ones that works really right now when it comes to generating leads and contacts. And the cool thing with this is people, when you start to build out a list of these types of contacts, these are people that want to hear from you. So it's not like you're connecting with someone on LinkedIn, like you just happened to you and before we hit record and they've asked you do you want connect and do some business? And you went ignore. It's not like that at all or they've hit your inbox and they've spammed you, they've cold emailed you and you've, you marked them as junk. These are people actually want to hear from you. So you can build out, I call it the power audience. You can build out over a certain period of time a database of contacts that are warm to what your messaging is in your marketing.

IAN: Yeah. And do those LinkedIn ads, do they pop up in your feed or are they just all come through? Because whenever I get an InMail, I go, stop selling to me. Swipe left. Delete. Yeah, I understand. And it's a, it's the same thing there. So do the, do these ads pop up in your timeline?

SCOTT: They're in the feed. They're in the feed. So it's not, they're in the feed. It's not a message. And to tell you the truth, it actually, the LinkedIn ads. You'll pay double or triple for what you would on the meta platform. And it sounds crazy, but the meta platform is actually much better at targeting B2B. Yeah.

IAN: Oh, really?

SCOTT: It goes against what you would expect but it is because meta Facebook has so much data on its user base. And it, employs machine learning basically to work out exactly who to show your ad to and who is most likely to opt into it. We run them for our members and we run them internally here at IT Rock Stars. We're currently paying opt-ins that we've got for one of our webinars is it's three or four pounds for a lead for that opt-in. Now there is a question there about, okay, what's the quality of the lead? But that's where we have the Power Audience method is where we can enrich the quality of that lead over time.

IAN: Because I still think, number one, my personal opinion is his Facebook's dying. I'm just getting bored with it. Now. It might be 'cause I've just tined off a load of people that I don't know anymore didn't connect with. Or people are just talking about cats falling off telly or Trump or something that's just really getting quite boring. But, I did a podcast a while ago with Sam Rathling, I don't know if you know her from LinkedIn, but she's, an amazing LinkedIn trainer and she says people are on LinkedIn for two reasons. They're either bored or they're trying to sell you something. Yeah. Which I think is just so true. And I think people go on Facebook just to get away from business, I just I still challenge that Facebook from a B2B point of view is a typical MSP in Slough, going to get an advert on a Facebook page for a solicitor's business working down there and they're going to engage on Facebook. It just doesn't seem likely to me, prove me wrong.

SCOTT: And why would you think that?

IAN: Just because either they're not on their match,

SCOTT: what platform they're on.

IAN: Because I think they go onto Facebook to get away from business and they want to go there. They don't want to go there and be bombarded about, but then again, they have got those interests. But I've always thought that how does it know that, some of the targeting that I suppose it knows everything about you, doesn't it?

SCOTT: It does. That's the scary thing. And if you were to run ads on Facebook three or four years ago, they had what's called interest targeting.

IAN: Yes.

SCOTT: And it was almost like a black art. If you want to attract, certain for MSPs are looking to speak to the decision or the business more than lightly. It is like the managing director or the owner it's like how do you like target them? And, but what Meta recommends now, and we're not just talking about Facebook, so meta, these are meta ads. So it's Facebook, it's Instagram, and it's the Meta Audience Network. So it's a three for one, whereas you're just getting LinkedIn ads on the other platform. Yeah. But what they recommend now is it's called broad targeting. So you let the machine figure out who to show the ad to, so you basically leave the targeting completely open apart from maybe say location. So if you're operating in a local area, yeah you leave, that's the only targeting that you do. And what Meta is looking at is not anything to do with targeting. It's looking at your creative. So it's looking at who you're calling out in your ad. So this is why potentially nicheing down. So if you're, want to speak to a particular type of business? Yeah, this can work really well. It's called Dog whistle copy where you're calling out, for example, some type of professional services accountants, or maybe it's manufacturing like that. But you're calling out that exact prospect within the copy of the ad and the landing page that you potentially have them going to. If you do run a landing page, you have it within there as well and the machine will work out exactly who it is. It needs to target. And certainly from our perspective, Ian, there's some quite large groups already on Facebook. Yes. They're dying of death now. Yeah. Yeah. There are like thousands of MSPs and sides.

IAN: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SCOTT: Meta has all of that data, and it's the same for other industries as well, so it will just because of these audiences already exist, it just works out similar types of data points for the users and it will show your ad and over time. As you run the ads, they actually the cost per lead reduces because it reduces, it's called seasoning the pixel, that's the technical term for it. You're seasoning your Facebook pixel and it just knows exactly who to show the ad to. So it works interesting. It works tremendously. I can show you the data. I know you're skeptical about it, but I can show

IAN: Yeah. I'm getting less skeptical. I know we're going to book a call you in a minute to work out how to do that, but, so we got the, thanks for that. I think it's really interesting. We've got the ads, you've got, we've got it all coming in. But what are working now for, middle of funnel lead magnets? So someone's been aware that you are around there now notice you and this is interesting. I think I might like to learn a little bit more about that. Then we've got Q stage left. Lead magnet, what are we talking about? A quiz, an assessment, a not a white paper. 'cause I don't think anybody's really interested in that sort of stuff. But it's some information, some educational information to help them work out how they can overcome their challenges with potentially this technology. What's happening in the lead magnet space right now, Scott?

SCOTT: So we've run multiple lead magnets for our members at IT rock stars. So we have, this puts us as a privileged position 'cause we see what works and we also see what doesn't work. Yeah. So this is the thing with marketing oh, this didn't work when it came to this lead magnet. It totally failed. It cost us 50 quid to get one lead with it. Yeah. That's actually a, that's a learning opportunity right there.

IAN: Yeah. Yeah.

SCOTT: What works right now, and this comes back to the question that I mentioned, we ask our any MSP, how they've grown their business. It's usually through relationships, it's word of mouth referrals. It's who you know, who's in your, who's in your business network. So I'm going to tell you what's really important about leads is having a longer term view on them. As I mentioned, you can turn on these lead gen ads and you can literally start getting leads. Once the A's approved within two hours, you'll start getting leads in the door. The quality of the lead is important, so having the right ad creative, landing page. And if you're going to run a webinar, even the lead magnet, that's important as well to get the right type of lead. Yeah. That's going to opt into whatever it is that you're advertising because these are being shown to lots of people and it's an algorithm that's showing them you're not always going to get it doesn't matter who you're in the market, so you might be able to target, all the business owners in your local area with these ads, okay? But not everyone is in the market for an a new MSP right now. Okay? They may opt into your webinar and they may enter your CRM, and it's okay, they're not ready to buy. There's only a very small percentage that are going to be in the place where they're actually they're may be a little bit annoyed with their current provider and they're looking around for someone else So having a longer term approach to the leads that you're generating through lead gen ads is extremely important. And this is why I call the power audience method. Where over time you're running, you're maybe running a lead magnet every month and you're generating, you put some budget behind it. Five to 10 pounds a lead, you've put budget behind that. That audience grows over time, but it's what you do with the leads over that longer period of time. Yeah. And there's multiple things that you can do. You can remarket to them. That's the first thing that we're going to suggest. You follow up with them as well to find a little bit more information about them. So if they have attended the webinar, now start for you here in the webinars. I don't know what it is like for you, Ian. Yeah, but when I run a webinar, maybe it's just my name could be like my dodgy beard I've got at the moment. I get round about. 25% attendance rate. Okay. And that's when I put in an effort to actually remind people as well. So like I send multiple emails.

IAN: Yeah, people are busy, right? It does, people are busy.

SCOTT: There are some mechanisms you can put in place to help with the attendance, but to set expectations, a hundred, 200 leads, maybe in a month, you're only going to get about 25 people maybe to turn up to the actual 25% to turn up to the webinar. So the question then becomes, is. What do you do without other 75% of people? As well as the 25 that turned up. Like how are you going to follow up with 'em? Yeah. Going to a give 'em a call, ask them what they thought the webinar, how we could improve it. Are you maybe going to get 'em to opt into something during the webinar itself, but there's that 75% that haven't opted in. Now there will be obviously prospects in there that maybe are looking to buy as well. They maybe just missed the webinar, and that's where you need to have things like email sequences, automations in your CRM that are going to nurture them over time. So like the basics when it comes to marketing, having a weekly newsletter that goes out and. Where it's delivering value, it's maybe, you're maybe talking about the next cool thing when Microsoft copilot, how you can actually use it properly.

IAN: So other AI options are available.

SCOTT: Yeah. So that's extremely important. And we touched on this last time that we talked. There's going to be a percentage of people that are just never going to buy from you that are on that list on in, in your CRM, but we can still leverage them. And that is, and I get, you kind of shoot your head at this, when we spoke about this last time we met was having a formalized referral program in your MSP.

IAN: Yeah.

SCOTT: So that the ones that aren't ready to buy, maybe don't even own a business or are part of a business, but it's who they know. Yeah, exactly. And they're exactly, they're opting into your marketing. They're reading your emails on a weekly basis, and you can have this formalized referral process where. Oh, I know such and such. Let me fill out this form that Scott sent me in this newsletter. I can maybe get a lot commission or, it depends how you want to structure that referral process. It's different for every MSP. Yeah. I've heard of some amazing referral processes in the us and like giving away a Tesla over the course of a year, which is completely

IAN: Yes. I heard you saying about that.

SCOTT: Probably nuts. But then there's other ones like the one that I really like. And that's something I'm probably going to put into my business is like where the first month's recurring commission goes towards a local charity. Yeah. I know it's not for everyone, but that's, these are the steps on thinking about how you can leverage all these leads that are coming in and it's, these are warm leads. So these are people that are opted in. So it's not like they're, you're spamming them, as I say. So that's why I say, this longer term approach to your to your lead gen and the leads that are coming in and how you, how are you going to follow up with, that's extremely important as well.

IAN: And once they're in that funnel, you can then, that's telemarketing. They're warm, they know you. It's not a cold call. Just ask them, you can gather the data. And then you can pick it up when they, when they're current MSPs yeah. Contracts up and speak to 'em six months before and that's what a lot of this is about. The money is always in the follow up. Yeah. The people who don't turn up are too busy and that's why they need to go onto your that's why they need to go get your services and things like that, which is great. Loads of great insights there, Scott. Thank you very much indeed.

SCOTT: Yeah, no problem. This is basically another way to buy data. So you hear MSPs that go and buy data from a provider. They go into maybe a Apollo or Luie Eye or ZoomInfo and just buy a big list, and then they scrub the list, and then they start marketing to the list. Really, what you're doing in this scenario is you're buying warm data and you're not having to go through that whole process.

IAN: Scott, thank you very much. Again, I think it was a great conversation. It could have gone on an awful lot longer, but probably would've been for my personal gains rather than the audience, but really great in information there. And I love just talking to people about different angles on marketing because there's normally just one or two things that would just give the MSP, that confidence just to go and do an event or whatever it might be. Wrapping it up. What are the three things that you are going to recommend the MSP does as soon as they get off the podcast today?

SCOTT: So first one is to try out lead gen ads. I really recommend trying the meta platform, not LinkedIn. You'll pay triple the price on LinkedIn. Give it some time.You need to season that pixel with data. So it needs to learn exactly who it is that you're looking to use dog whistle copy in the ad, call out exactly who it is that you want to extract into the ad.

IAN: Yeah.

SCOTT: Second thing, make yourself uncomfortable in your marketing. To a webinar, push yourself, change your business by changing yourself. Yeah. So highly recommend a webinar. It's a really good one to, to start building a rapport with prospects in your local marketplace. You could even do it to a live event. A little bit more involved there. I would suggest running the webinar Microsoft Teams, if you're a Microsoft 365 house, it has a webinar function. You just go in the calendar and it's a dropdown, create webinars as opposed to create meeting. It acts as a really good filter mechanism. So it attracts it. It's going to people that don't know what teams, yeah, they're just going to not come to the webinar. But the ones that know teams, they're going to come along. And then the third thing is having a longer term approach to the leads that you're generating. Make sure that you're nurturing them. In your CRM with the newsletters, referral programs, and you're following up with telemarketing, that type of thing.

IAN: Fantastic. Thanks again, Scott. I think you've got a special link for everybody. And how do people get in contact with you if they want to continue the conversation about marketing their MSP?

SCOTT: Yeah, you can check out our website. It's IT rockstars.net. And I have a special link just for you guys listening to the MSP Growth Hub. It's ITrockstars.net/growth hub.

IAN: Fantastic. Thank you very much indeed. That's brilliant. So look, good luck with everything going on up there in the north and north of Scotland. I'm glad to see that you've got some sunshine and potentially some decent weather. Great podcast as usual. All the best with the business this year and I look forward to catching up with you soon, Scott. Bye now.

SCOTT: Bye.

OUTRO: Just before you go, and if you're curious about how this episode links with the ability to scale your MSP to a million or, or if you are already there, accelerate to five, then we want to invite you to come and take the MSP Mastery quiz, and in just three minutes, you're going to get a 360 degrees scan of your business where you can identify the one or two time, engage in, align your people and help generate more leads in your MSP. It's really simple. Just click on the link in the show notes. And if you have enjoyed this episode, we'd love to get some feedback from you by means of a rating review on Spotify or iTunes, or your podcast platform of choice. We really appreciate every single one of them. Now, you can go and enjoy the rest of your day, and we look forward to catching up and connecting with you soon. All the best now.