EP203 – Ask Stuart #17 – How to Create a High Performing Team… While Taking 3 Weeks Off

INTRO: In this episode of the IT Experts podcast, we help you work out how to build a high performing team. And take three weeks off.

Welcome to the IT Experts Podcast. The only podcast to help MSPs scale to one million. And if already there, get to five and go fast. At the end of the day, isn't it all about building a business that works for you rather than you for it? I hope you enjoy the show.

IAN: So good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Welcome to the IT Experts Podcast. We have Stuart back in the house this afternoon, this morning, wherever it is you are.

STUART Yes. Afternoon, Stuart. Hey, great to be back.

IAN: Good stuff. Right, today, how to build a high performing team. Now, I can hear you all yawning, I can hear you all going, Hang on a minute, haven't we spoken about this before? Haven't we heard all this information before? Yes you have, but this one, we've got a little bit of a tweak on this, because the caveat is, while taking three weeks off. So how to build a high performing team in your MSP, while you take three weeks off on holiday. So, how does this come about? Let's take a look, a week we were interviewing one of our clients, Andy, and we do in the Growth Hub. We not only use the frameworks around the MSP scale system, but we also build in when people do use best practices and when they really apply and they get great success because it helps them build with confidence, scale with confidence. So we were interviewing Andy and what Stuart's going to explain to you now is the process that he went through and as soon as Stuart finished recording I said podcast, podcast, podcast. That was absolutely gold. Everybody needs to hear about this There's obviously a lot of detail around some of the metrics and the money and the finances and all that which we're not going to Cover off on today. But what we are going to talk about today is some of the things that you know, Andy had used he tactics, the techniques, the methodology, the language, the scripts, and all this sort of stuff to help him build an amazing, incredible team. So, Stuart, we talked about, the reason for the show is so that the MSPs can build great high performing team. But what, to start off with what does a high performing team look? like in an MSP? What do we mean when we talk about a high performing team?

STUART: Well, ideally, it's about a team that allows you to step back confidently and have more time. Our whole raison d'etre is helping our clients build what we call is O N N, Owner Not Needed. So replace the word owner for your name. So Ian Not Needed, Stuart Not Needed, John Not Needed. and in this particular example we're talking about today, Andy not needed. And that really resonates with all of our clients, because who wouldn't want a business in which you're not needed? Because if you're not needed, you've got the choice to literally not be in the business, but probably for 95, 90, 99 percent of clients, they can then choose what they want to do in their business. And for many, it's being at the front line with their biggest clients, being strategic with technology and enjoying the relationships, the commercial relationship. And also the personal the personal relationship with their biggest clients.

IAN: Yep. So why did you decide that Andy was the one that you were going to interview around this whole aspect of what he'd done with his team?

STUART: It's simple. It's just the results he's got. And it's not just Andy. We interview our team. All our clients at different points, because there's some magic that they've, they may not even realize that magic that they've created, but there's these little breakthroughs of progress that when you add them all up together and they look back over a year or two or three and suddenly I've suddenly got a two million pound MSP that's making, 25 percent net profit, plus I'm drawing 100 grand a year and I've got all this time and I'm loving it. And that is worth sharing. And as you said at the beginning, This is called standing on the shoulders of clients. And there's a real phrase out there called standing on the shoulders of giants. But this is standing on the shoulders of clients who've actually been there and done it. So we're sharing some of the magic sauce here that goes on in the Growth Hub about exactly how do you stand on the shoulders. Because who wants to climb a 12 foot wall on their own? It's hard work. But if someone says, Here you go. Put your foot on my shoulder. How easy is it to get over a 12 foot fall? I've never heard you

IAN: Say that shoulders of clients before I think that's quite funny.

STUART: I came up with it last week because we have that section called standing on shoulders of Giants, but it rhymes with clients.

IAN: Yeah.

STUART: Awesome.

IAN: You should be a poet and you don't even know it. My word. Where is this going to go? Okay. Let's bring this in. We talked about team building before we've talked about that, the four or five or six or seven steps or whatever it might be before and yet virtually every time we have a new client come on board. We talked to them about their team you look them in the eyes and we go well, you know they're really good technically but and they got you to where you are today. But are they going to get you where you need to be, question mark number one, are they the right people, question mark number two, or question number three is actually, what the hell do I do about it? So what holds people back from tackling this subject? As soon as there's an issue, a technical issue, MSP's all over it, like a squid on a diver's mask all over the place. But what holds them back when it comes around to dealing and tackling, tackling people issues?

STUART: There's a number of things there as you said a squid on a diver's mask when it comes to technical stuff, and I think that's really true. is that whilst many MSP owners want to get away from the technical, 99% of them have come from technical. Even if they're sat in a room trying to do something different, if they hear a technical conversation, their ear is their body can't, they can't resist, tuning in and getting involved. And in some cases they have always been the expert. And there's a little bit of our ego, I think, that gets in the way, is that we don't want to let go of being the expert or, others interpret doing something, doing it very slightly differently, not how you would do it, but it gets the same result. However, it's not the way you would do it. So there's some real psychological challenges and ingrained safety habits that hold MSP back. business owners back around the technical. But what's so amazing about this example is how do I build a high performing team by taking three weeks off or going on holiday for three weeks is that actually, it's trusting yourself to create space in your business. Yeah. for something else to fill it, and not you. And it either goes horribly wrong, which is the biggest fear that MSPs have, is if I'm not there, and I'm not at the end of my email, and I'm not at the end of the phone, it will all go to hell in the handbasket. But the experience of Andy was, the more I go on holiday, the less I'm involved. My point to him was go on holiday, Martin. And this has been the same all the time. So how do you get your team to become high performing by going away more? Because that is counterintuitive, I think, for everybody. Because you end up, as Andy said, I was the blocker. You become the blocker in your own business, the cap on the capacity and the potential of your people. But the other side is it does rest on the quality of the people that you've got. And if you ask most MSPs, how's your team? Let's say you've got three or four engineers two or three engineers and an admin person supporting you. And it's okay. But there's a little bit of you that is scared to let go. There's a little bit of you that trusts them. But not a hundred percent. So there's a little bit of you that is nervous to go away, and you might have good reason to be, because there is evidence in the past where things have gone wrong, they haven't known what to do, but have you allowed them to take responsibility for you not being there? Have you allowed them to take responsibility for getting it right and I think there is an element of how you Tee up your team for you not being there to give them the permission with no fear of retribution to own it. And I think that not, I think, I know that's what Andy in this case has done, and because for many years, more than a decade, it hadn't been like that. And just the shift in his language and his positioning of it to the team meant that he gave them the permission to own it. Now, do things, little things go wrong? Or is it wrong? Not quite how they should be? Yes. Have there been things that they haven't known what to do in the past? Yes. But has it meant that his holiday has been interrupted every day whilst away? And has he been able to extend the amount of time he's been taking off? Yes. So next year, he's actually got planned, four weeks away from the business. Because he did three weeks this year, and he wasn't needed once.

IAN: Fantastic.

STUART: And in fact, the team have actually stepped up and moved projects on. I don't mean client projects, internal projects. How to improve XYZ in the PSA. And again, how come my team are thinking outside the box and proactively engaging with stuff that isn't just reacting to a ticket? And that's what we're talking about today.

IAN: It's allowing that time to have that time to think as well, isn't it? We were talking about this last week on some of the accountability pods was the importance of having breathing space and not being scared to not be busy enough that you can sit there feet up if you want and have a think about some of the things that you need to drive forwards rather than be caught up being busy because it feels good. When you're feeling when you're busy being busy yeah it feels good doesn't it because you it can feel good it can obviously feel very overwhelming as well but it can feel good because you feel like you're adding value because you're doing something but in actual fact some of the most powerful time we have in, what we're doing with the Growth Hub here is during those quiet times or during those times when we're sitting there staring at a whiteboard and then the pens come out and within 10 minutes we've created something incredible which...

STUART: But we're entrepreneurs. And sometimes we see from staff, if they're not, that they're going to put their feet up and, game or go home early or, and there's two elements to that. One is, we're not trusting them. Yep. B is, we're not directing them and engaging them in how they could step up and fill their time when we're away. And when we do that, then we give them the opportunity to respond in a different way whilst we're not there. Now, what if this doesn't happen? Now the big fear is, oh, my team I think everyone says, my team's great, my team's okay. So why are you consumed when you go away? So, by gently testing this and giving them the permission to own stuff, which is basically sitting there and saying, guys, while I'm away, what are you going to be doing? What I'd like to see you do is XYZ. What does success look like while I'm away? Assume I'm on another planet. Assume you can't reach me unless this place is on fire. Unless there is a major breach. And see what happens. Now, if the feedback that you get from this experiment is that they genuinely can't cope, and they genuinely haven't moved forward, then that raises a much bigger question, which is really valuable feedback, is, have you got the right people? And that leads you to a whole different conversation, which we've talked about on many different podcasts. But I think the majority, will experience if you do this that they will step up in their own way and if you recognize that and applaud that and engage with them when they come back to say hey how did it get on how did that move forward what was this what was that and make them feel good do you think they might do it again next time

IAN: Do you think that everybody needs to have, clearly defined roles and responsibilities before you can even start talking about this sort of thing. What's the importance of that? Because you've got your help desk, you've probably got your project staff, you've probably got, then you've got some admin staff, let's say. But there's always, reason a little thing that the MSP owner might say to know what can I think of to get in the way to? Prevent me from doing this. Oh, I haven't got I haven't got one haven't had one to ones. Oh, I haven't had job descriptions Oh, we haven't got all of these things is it important that you have to have all of these things lined up before you can even start to think About taking time off and handing responsibility, or is good enough, is a little bit good enough? Where does the, I'm trying to remove some fog and some blockers here around those key responsibilities.

STUART: I think to do it now, no, you don't need all of that stuff. If you want to scale, you'd need that stuff. Because as an MSP scales, gets bigger, more complicated, you need more structures. It's like building a bungalow. You could build a bungalow. I'm out of my comfort zone now, probably with shallower foundations than if you were going to build something five stories, five stories taller. And that's a great analogy, by the way, and it works. Actually, a conservatory only needs a foot. That's right. And a house needs three foot footings I think. Don't correct me, guys. But the analogy works though, this is the whole point so if you were to Trust your team and get your team to perhaps step up. You could do this, next month when you go on holiday for a week. Test it out. Because ultimately, innovation is all about trying something new. So why not be innovative and try trusting your team to own it while you're away. And you might actually realise, if you think about it, that actually your team own it anyway. And you are looking at your emails every day and you are looking for something to get involved with. Because actually, there's nothing on fire. You're just going, oh they haven't replied in red. I was replying black. And that's just stupid, isn't it? That's just irrelevant. I think that's really key. And measurement is important as well. Where am I with my team? In terms of me being able to go on holiday, let's say, for a week. And where am I not at with my team in terms of going on holiday? It's called KPIs. So what is the measure of success? So one measure that Andy had was recording ticket time because for years he couldn't get it more than four hours recorded and so he set a KPI. It's a minimum of four, I think it's four hours recorded. It should be seven and a half, that's a whole day isn't it? He started with four. Yeah. He says now we're above five days because obviously there's a percentage of time that's recorded. isn't billable that's involved in training, holidays, whatever it might be. But now you said we're regularly recording between five and six hours of time per day that's billable. Now how does that drop to the bottom line? A lot. How does that allow you to measure efficiency? A lot. Because he set a benchmark of what success looks like. And fed back to them by having regular community. So again, the structure of communication, the structure of allowing people to know what it is you expect from them, but involving them in it. And I think the really special source on all of this is involving your team in the journey. So if you don't lay down what the plan is this year, you're... And this is something Andy did. The minute he joined the growth hub, he hadn't really engaged his team in the journey and he was quite nervous about having setting. I think it was a Thursday evening after work at five o'clock pizzas on him. I think it was outside of the office, but even if it was in the office, he didn't think they would make themselves available to stay after work to talk business. They all stayed, and I remember the excitement he had with how much they got engaged about talking about how the business could grow, what was important to them, and he just listened and made a list on the whiteboard of all the stuff that came out. And then he used those ideas to incorporate them into his overall plan that we'd built out with him so that they felt involved. And over time, they have just owned, because they understand where it's going, as a result they've changed, some of them have changed roles, they've got promoted, they've earned more money they're engaging in training more effectively, because they understand what the journey is for them personally, and the business. The kind of the icing on the cake, which we're talking about today, is The time back and the trust back and the confidence back to go on holiday for three weeks and not get a single message. And we're not talking a massive team. We're talking a team of I think seven. Tight, interwoven, talking amongst themselves. All because he set the scene, he's put in place some daily habits as a daily huddle. But it's a proper conversation where these peers talk to each other. And a few of them have stepped up and shown that they want to step up. And they've got the leadership capability in them as well. They're natural leaders amongst a group. And he's got an amazing team. All by taking three weeks off.

IAN: So we've talked a lot about the team, and we've talked a lot about, about holistically, their group of people. But, for more on an individual point of view, how do you engage and connect at an individual level? What does that kind of rhythm of review look like on a one to one basis?

STUART: Yeah, great question, because yes, you've got to engage the team, and I think many MSPs don't engage at the team level, or actually maybe that's all they do, but one to ones. People are working for you because of you. And so giving yourself, giving them access to you in a structured environment. One to ones, we talked about one to ones. And it's not just about performance management. But having a conversation with your people and using it as an opportunity to understand them, understand how they're getting on in their role, the progress they're making, and where they're getting stuck, and also to frame with them from a coaching perspective. And we teach our clients to lewd, to lead through coaching, having a coaching style. When you're coaching, you're listening, And also, you're curious, and you're wanting to grow the conversation between you two to to create magic. Which sounds a bit far fetched, but the magic is when You come away from that meeting, both of you, feeling good, feeling like you've been heard, feeling like you've had a chance to speak and that you've got some solutions or some ideas of how to move forward. Even if it's in a tiny way. Yeah. Even if you just feel more reassured, that's a way of moving forward. Or more excited. And , one of the great ways of doing this, rather than feeling like it's a confrontation, like sitting across from someone and say how are you? We've got 20 minutes, I need to talk about how you are, is Let's take the pressure off. Go for a walk. And Andy's got a lovely office where it's got farmland behind it. And he takes them down the farm lane and goes for a walk with them. And A, it's a bit like you have your best ideas in the shower.

IAN: Yeah.

STUART: Or when you're swimming or running, because your brain has the chance to think because it's doing something automatic. So when you start walking with someone and having a meeting whilst you're walking, the body's busy doing something else. You're looking ahead, not at each other, but you're also aware of the other person's, you Tone of voice, body language, breathing, you pick up on the nonverbal signs and also the tone of their voice and their energy of their voice and whether they're, not happy or they're like, I'm really excited about what, this project and if you have a plan, little agenda you can actually have much more, much richer conversations and get some exercise and get your steps in so it's like everybody wins.

IAN: And it also takes them out of that environment where It's not territorial, is it? I'm not at my desk, you're not at your desk, we're not in our office, we're out somewhere else. I really believe that's a great way to level the conversation.

STUART: And you'll be amazed at what comes up.

IAN: Yeah.

STUART: And also be curious and say how are you getting on with that? How do you feel about that? And it's oh, not the how does it feel question. But, and when you're sat opposite someone, someone needs to, feels like they need to fill the void, and say something just to satisfy you, and it could be anything. But when you're walking. And the body's distracted and you're not looking at each other and it doesn't feel like conflict, you're just going for a walk together. You can have some much deeper, much more honest conversations that are great for both parties. And when you bring that back to then the team thing, and the expectations, and the involvement of the team, and everything we've talked about so far, that's how you get a high performing team. Assuming, caveat, that you have got the right people in the right roles in your business, that's when they start to step up. Step into their potential, think proactively and allows you to go away for three weeks and have no involvement in your business. And then think about four weeks. Fantastic.

IAN: Love it. We have covered an awful lot on this show.

STUART: We have.

IAN: We've covered information, a lot of detail, a lot of structure around that goes. What's takeaways for this one?

STUART: What do you need to do, those of you listening, to actually trust your team, use your team's ability to give you more time and step back so that you can do, as you always say, the thousand pound tasks and the hundred pound tasks, and not the 10 tasks. That's when you'll start to feel like your business is beginning to properly work for you, rather than you for it. But we need to measure it. Day in, day out, day in, day out. Because otherwise, it's just guesswork.

IAN: Stuart, I think that's all we need to say. I think we're done. What a great show. Thank you very much for all those wonderful insights that you put together there. Hope you all listened to that very carefully. If that's You know what you need to do. Have a great day. See you on the next one.

STUART: Bye. Bye everyone.

OUTRO: Just before you go And if you're curious about how this episode links with the ability to scale your MSP to a million or if you're already there Accelerate to five then we want to invite you to come and take the MSP mastery quiz And in just three minutes, you're going to get a 360 degree scan of your business where you can identify the one or two tactics that can help you find more time engaging along your people and help generate more leads in your MSP. It's really simple. Just click on the link in the show notes. And if you have enjoyed this episode, we'd love to get some feedback. By means of a rating review on Spotify or iTunes or your podcast platform of choice. We really appreciate every single one of them. Now you can go and enjoy the rest of your day and we look forward to catching up and connecting with you soon. All the best.