During one of our recent two-day intensive sessions, Julie shared some statistics about MSP leaders and their lack of regular one-to-ones with their teams. Shockingly, only about 50% of those in the room admitted to conducting regular one-to-one meetings with their team members. This means that half of them are missing out on a golden opportunity to build trust, enhance performance, and foster a culture of accountability and autonomy.
Julie Hutchison emphasised the importance of these conversations, highlighting that as your business grows, so does your need to rely on your team. You can’t do everything yourself, and the key to scaling successfully is to build a team that is not only capable but also confident and collaborative. By conducting regular one-to-ones, you create a space where team members feel heard and valued, which in turn encourages them to take ownership of their roles.
A key takeaway from our conversation is the idea of being “interested, not interesting.” Julie pointed out that many leaders avoid conversations with their team because they feel they don’t know what to say or fear conflict. But the beauty of these meetings is that they’re not about delivering grand speeches or only addressing issues; they’re about listening. Julie Hutchison advises approaching these conversations with genuine curiosity about what your team members have to say. Ask them about their goals, what they’re working on, and how they feel about their progress. It’s about building trust by showing that you care about their input and development.
One of the key points Julie made was that regular one-to-ones should not be seen as formal, intimidating events. Instead, they can be casual conversations, whether in the office, over coffee, or even during a car ride. The important thing is to create opportunities for dialogue, where team members can express their thoughts and ideas freely. This approach not only takes the pressure off both parties but also encourages a culture of open communication and continuous improvement.
Another gem from Julie Hutchison was her advice on the “coaching style” of conducting one-to-ones. This involves using a framework like the GROW model, which encourages team members to reflect on their goals, assess their current situation, explore options, and commit to action steps. By guiding them through this process, you’re not just telling them what to do; you’re helping them develop problem-solving skills and a sense of responsibility for their own growth.
It’s important to remember that these conversations are not just about addressing problems. They’re also about recognising achievements, sharing updates on company goals, and aligning everyone with the business vision. When team members understand the bigger picture and see how their work contributes to it, they become more engaged and motivated to succeed.
Julie Hutchison’s insights highlight the transformative power of communication in building a high-performing team. By making regular one-to-ones a priority, you’re investing in your team’s development and, ultimately, the success of your business. So, if you’re an MSP leader who’s been avoiding these conversations, take that first step today. Book that initial meeting, keep it informal, and focus on listening and learning from your team. As Julie wisely said, be interested, not interesting. This simple shift in mindset can lead to a more empowered, engaged, and effective team.
Remember, building a business that works for you starts with creating a team that can thrive without you constantly steering the ship.
Listen to the first episode we had with Julie Hutchison where we talk about the art of having a difficult conversation in Episode 144 of the IT Experts Podcast.
Connect with Ian HERE on LinkedIn and also Stuart by clicking this LINK
If you’re ready to take the next step in supercharging your MSP, take the Scale with Confidence MSP Mastery Quiz. This tool is designed to help you understand where your MSP stands and what steps you can take to scale profitably and effectively. This will provide you with insights and guidance tailored to your specific needs.
OR to join our amazing Facebook Group of over 400 MSPs where we are helping you Scale Up with Confidence, then click HERE
Until next time, look after yourself and I’ll catch up with you soon!
INTRO
In this episode of the IT Experts Podcast, we're going to help you overcome the biggest problem where you are just not talking to your team.
Welcome to the IT Experts Podcast, the only podcast to help MSPs scale to 1,000,000, and if already there get to five and go fast at the end of the day, isn't it all about building a business that works for you rather than you for it? I hope you enjoy the show.
IAN
So, good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Welcome to the IT Experts podcast. Today we have Julie Hutchison back in the crowd back in the podcast lounge, Julie is one of our amazing leadership coaches here at the MSP growth hub and recently, at a one of our two day intensives we have with our clients. We were having a chat and a bit of a conversation. And there were some rather scary stats around MSP leaders talking to their teams, put us a bit of context around some of these stats, Julie.
JULIE
Yeah, absolutely. Hello, everyone. So we were talking, we and there was a bunch of us and we were talking about team performance and answering questions about or how they thought their team were doing and it was very outward focused. And then we asked the question of how many of you conduct 1 to one with your team and we were quite surprised when we in because only about 50% of the audience actually put their hands up. And that means that only 50% of all of those people in the room with there was quite a few are talking to their teams. So how can we create team performance if we're not actually talking to people. And it was really worrying. So we thought we'd have a conversation on that.
IAN
It was really, yeah, it was quite right. But it wasn't surprising because we have the we do have this conversation in the Growth Hub quite regularly about are you having one to ones? And when the question comes back off, no, which also means no. Then it was like, okay, how do we help this happen? I mean, if we roll this thing all the way back up to the top, you know, how do you run a successful business. What are the three elements you need to run a successful is really, really simple number, know your numbers, know exactly where your money is, where the finances are, the efficiency of your business, your systems, that kind of great stuff, which is great. Number 2 is having a working sales and marketing engine that's delivering you fresh leads. And the third thing is to build, maintain. Yeah, build and maintain an amazing team. It's simple, that's those three things. That's all you need to do. If you want to learn how to grow a business, just do those three things really, really easy. But we know, don't we truly, that MSP business owners sometimes. It's just difficult. It's just clunky and they just don't know where to start, do they? So you know, I guess the first question we've got is you know why are regular one to ones important. What's this all about, why do we need to do this?
JULIE
Yeah. And they are so important. And I think one of the biggest things that we need to get the concept really, which is if you want to grow your business, it's all very well. If it's just you, you can do all the bits and you can be as busy as you like. But as your business grows, you need to bring on people, which means that you can't do everything. So we need to and talk about in the MSP Growth Hub all the time, owner not needed. Yeah, but the only way you could be owner not needed is. if somebody else is doing some other stuff, okay, it’s not a magic.
IAN
It just doesn't just happened.
JULIE
No, exactly right. So other people have got to do the stuff, and they've got to do it confidently, capably, capably, and collaboratively with you. Okay, they've got to want to be there. They've got to know how to do the stuff. And they've got to have the confidence to go ahead and do it right. And So what one to ones are doing is saying, well, I'm going to check in with you and make sure that you are capable. You do have the confidence and you are working with me, not against me, which we know sometimes we also get. So what one to ones are going to do for you, is to build the connection and encourage you to devolve the responsibility and get rid of you out of these jobs in the business and give them and let them be owned by other people in the business. Okay and that's really important, not just for them to do it because you told them to, which is almost as much work as do itself is letting them own that role, that job, that thing that you're not going to do anymore, which means that you're not needed in the business. Okay, so we encourage ownership of that piece of whatever that job is that person is meant to be doing the responsibility for it is devolved. And that means that your team will not be a group of people that are waiting on your every you know the desire and to tell you what needs to be done. There will be autonomous, so they will make good decisions in your business. They will make you know that they will choose. What do they need to do, that's the best thing to do. So they're not knocking on your door every 5 minutes asking you what next, and so that builds their confidence, it builds their capability. So it's like a virtuous circle instead of a vicious circle and it means that, you know, and have faith and trust and confidence in their ability, which means you feel more comfortable stepping out, doing whatever, you know, working on your business, going on your holiday, having a day off or whatever that thing might be, but you can trust them to do it, but you can't trust them if we don't do that.
IAN
And it's really powerful because you know, when you're building your business, you know, you are the only one who can do things to the standard, the quality, the time, everything that you've got and it’s this as you say, it's building that trust and the confidence to start to let go. Now what we're not saying is all of a sudden give someone the keys to the castle and let them drive and run board meetings and all sorts of things like that, we're not talking, about, we're talking about, that is abdication. We're talking about one little thing at a time to help build the expectations, change, the connection.
JULIE
As abdication not settled.
IAN
And yes, we are focusing this on around the one to ones. But when we also you know the titles are stop talking stop you know stop avoiding talking to your teams this also means, things quarterly updates on what you're doing, aligning them in with your vision and your mission and the and where the business is going, things that are going well, things that could be doing better, build that culture, open up your you know, listen twice as much as you, you know you're talking, as my mum told me, bless her and all these great things.
JULIE
Listen.
IAN
Well, I can't. I can't. I'm kind of still working on it and...
JULIE
Okay.
IAN
And she knows that as well, but also your annual reviews on what on what you're doing, and please don't underestimate when you book or when you book a meeting or a one to one or some focus time with your team. They are going to look forward to it and value it, probably.
JULIE
I don't know.
IAN
I'm going to guess now 235 times more than you will. So if you're busy and you go. Oh, I can't do that one to one today because you may not be really getting the value of it. You're letting down probably five times, the you know the weight of the employees going ohh. Got a job. I was really looking forward to that. Getting a bit of time with Dave or Steve or Jill or whoever it might be and kind of looking into those things and it as you say it's building that building that up and helping people understand where they're aligned as well. Aren't they within the business as well? It's like one to one time.
JULIE
And if you don't do that, it isn't even just as much as the they're looking forward to it. But if that's an expectation, what is it telling them if you don't do it, you know, if you if you, you know, it falls out of the diary because it's, you know, a bit, you know, I don't want to do it whatever. Then then you're just telling them that they don't matter. And the minute they feel they don't matter or they're not important enough for you to talk to them. Then, they're going to think, well, you know, why do I need to try? And that just takes down that level of effort that they're willing to put in. So you're not doing yourself any favour by avoiding it.
IAN
And when you do avoid it. And when they don't happen, you know, they kind of make up their own version of what's going on, don't they? Because you're not telling them we've just won this great new customer. We're doing this, you know, campaign to get some more leads in this particular sector or we're doing or investing in some technology and they'll sit there. There was a great book. I don't know whether you've read it was a very, very small book called ZAP that I read back in the day, and it was basically the whole thing was the whole premise of this book was that the IT was a business book and you overlooked this office and this whole office open plan office and everywhere was light and bright and shiny, and everyone was wonderful and it was happy. And you know, I'm going to reread it and then I'm going to put a bit more context in it. But the context was about that there's a corner where the lights have gone out and the lights have gone out because no one's communicating and the lights have gone out cause no one cares about this team and no one engages with this team. And this team went through the building and started turning all the other lights out because they were talking to everyone else and going oh, it's not that great here. It's not that brilliant here, you know? So if you're sitting here listening to this podcast right now, knowing down well that everybody's engaged, everybody's enjoying, you're having regular 1 to one, everything's Kitty Boo. And you know they're giving you ideas and they want to help and go over and above to help your business. Then you could you could kind of stop listening now, but if you're not and people are doing their own little thing and people aren't maybe listening, they're not taking notice. They're not acting the way that you want them to act now. They're not always, they're not going to act the way you want to act you exactly what I'm at because it's not their business. Right. But they do have a role. They do have a responsibility. They do have that purpose. And it is around that purpose. So I suppose you know what happens when you don't get and people don't see that sense of purpose, do they?
JULIE
Absolutely, because they're not included in it either. You haven't told them or they don't feel included, or they don't know what it is. How can anybody get on that? We've talked about this before, but how can anybody get on the bus with you if you if they know where you're going and so they feel ignored. They feel like you know, you they're just left to fester in the corner and so they're not going to put their best effort in and it's pretty obvious and we would all know how we'd feel if we were ignored and not felt like we were included. So it's totally normal for those people to step back and then wait for you to tell them what to do. And so they'll still be guided by you because most people come to work and want to do a good job. But it's the engagement and the extra effort and the confidence that you bring when you start to you know talk to people you start to hear what they say, you start to understand what's going up. For them and you mentioned you said Ohh if you don't tell them you know they make stuff up. I call that the gap. And the gap here is that if you think about this, if somebody says somebody's whispering near you or somebody says something didn't quite hear or they didn't tell you or like somebody does something and you don't know why they did it, there's the gap. Now that gap is never, just think about this. Right. It's never filled with something positive.
IAN
Now, what's the headline of the newspaper?
JULIE
Exactly, right. So wherever there is a gap, whether it is, why did my husband, you know, pop off to the shop to that, telling me or why did my you know why did my boss send an e-mail to Jenny and not me or whatever it is, if there's a gap in our brains, almost always just be probably because of all the stuff that goes on in our heads and our own self worth and all that jazz, we fill it with some kind of awful stuff, like, oh, they must be doing it because they don't like me or they must be off speed or somebody else, or they're going to give Jenny the promotion or everything and anything. Okay, I'm not good enough. Whatever thing is, it's never filled with. Oh, I bet they're offering me a present or something like that. Never ever in a million years. So, you as the boss of your business or if you're a leader in a business, if you leave gaps, you're basically like pulling the trust levels down in your business massively. You're making people feel uncomfortable. And you are inviting negative feeling. Okay, so don't leave a gap, even if it's full of you know what we know there's a brilliant bit in Robert Sheldon's book of influence around this and what we know is that even if you fill it with something that isn't really that interesting. If it's, there's a reason for stuff, then we stop filling the gap, so give that reason by talking to people and communicating properly and don't leave gaps. So there's just a there's a bit of an aside, really.
IAN
Just a bit of an aside, so when we do start doing these, what magical things start to have you know, when we do start talking to our teams in our MSP, what magical stuff starts to happen?
JULIE
OK, well initially, you will feel that the magical stuff is a bit worrisome because they're not used to it. Okay, so they're going to be like what on Earth, are you up to? Why you keep trying to talk to me, okay. Exactly. They're like, okay, I'm not used to this, but all of those problems that were getting old and big and hairy. Because you didn't do it and the hard things. Okay, suddenly we start to normalize having conversations, okay, so we go from, like, terrified that in the room to opening up those lines of communication and start thinking okay, this is normal. Ohh Ian's listening to me and what that means is that it builds trust, okay, it identifies you know initially you're going to get superficial stuff. Okay, so how are you for example? No. But I'm fine, you get the good old fine. Okay. But it isn't until you keep doing this, then what happens in the magic happens is that somebody realises that the last time they spoke to you, whatever they said got acted on or whatever they said, got listened to, they were heard. Okay, which means they now trust you because you did what you said you were going to do or they listened and they made them feel good. Which builds the trust, which means now they're going to give you the next thing they're going to the deeper level of what is going on for them. Okay and so you're going to start being able to find out things that are either good or not good at a much earlier opportunity, you're going to start seeing them when they're small problems rather than big old hairy problems. Yeah, you're going to be able to identify that and get rid of that problem. You're going to make people feel like, ohh, I'm actually, I am included. And he does this to me. So I'm going to put my extra effort in because he's going to notice or she if you. But I'm talking about you at the moment, Ian. So and so what that means is, is that you get this chance to make people feel better, but then you also start to like recognize what they're good at and understand what they're doing. And now you can start to bring in some of that stuff around what we talked about is devolving responsibility and ownership because you can see, right, okay, well, I'm going to give you a chance here. I'm going to show you how to do something. I'm going to trust you to go ahead and do something, and I'm going to check in with you and support you in doing that now what happens now is you're going to what I call teach them to fish, yeah. In other words, you don't have to keep telling them what to do every 5 minutes you're going to build that trust that they feel confident enough to go. I'm going to give that a go, I know what Ian would do in that situation, so I'm going to either do that or I'm going to do something even better. And so then they're suddenly making better decisions. They're thinking, right. I can take the initiative because they trust because there's communication, but it's okay. And you're not going to come running and shouting. And then whatever it might be. So when you have this clear conversation that that's talking about, you know, what's going on for them, how well they've done stuff what they need to work on. What you want them to do, then? They're just more engaged and they're going to feel more capable and more confident in your business, which means that you can allow them to get on and do whatever they want to do.
IAN
And it's around trusting that process as well as you just said something in the middle of that which when I was in my mid 20s late 20s is when I started leading teams for what is now Virgin Media when it was back in the day when it was TL and I was a bit scared at the time and had been made into this supervisor position and it was, Oh my God. About what's going on and my boss turned around to me and he said just do what you say you're going to do. I said okay, he said right. I'm going to tell you that again. What I didn't say to you was do everything that everybody asked you to do. I did say do what you say you're going to do. So if you say to someone, I'm going to meet you at 4:00 on Friday and have a catch up as soon as you don't meet them at 4:00 on a Friday. Our new's going to do that and then all of a sudden you've got this weighing scale that's going deeper than you wanted to, and you're going to start. You have to then work harder to get back to that building, that trust and that relationship back with those people, even if you've got nothing to say and you haven't done the work and you haven't achieved what you needed to do. Hey, Julia, seller's going to get back to you at 4:00 on for today I'm getting back to you to tell you that I'm going to need to have a chat with your mom, like, because we haven't quite finished it off yet. So all this, all this communication, why do we avoid doing this, Julie, why does this not happening? Why are we doing this podcast? What's going on in a lot of people's brains right now?
JULIE
Fill the gap you know. A lot of people think ohh I can't. I'm not a people person. I hear that all the time or I don't know what to say ohh I feel worried about, you know, like making a mess of it or I don't have a script or what do I do, you know? And so there's I think there's a bunch of stuff going on in everybody's head around, like, especially in our world, you know, well, I'm, I'm technically great, but I don't know how to speak to people and so that then puts it in the too hard box. So we avoid sometimes people think it's going to be a conflict conversation and that's not the point of these conversations. They're not to deal with issues that's and that's a really, I think, a big mindset thing. This is not about issues. There might be some issues that come up, but they're not just for issues. They're about good and issues that might be about updates. So you were talking about earlier about what we do in the business. It's all sorts of things and very positive things. And so if we think it's about ohh, this is going to be awkward. It's going to be bad and we only ever do it when it's bad by the way that's quite often what happens. Ohh now I've got to go and have a conversation with Bob because he's done something wrong. When we do that well, of course we're going to feel like they're negative and they're difficult because we're only looking at one side of it. And so people feel like, well, this is too difficult. I don't know how to deal with this. So I'm not going to, and they're worried about what the outcome is going to be as well. You know, if Bob's. Going to kick off or whatever. What's going to happen and you know, that might happen in like a very small percentage. But if we're balancing our conversations that we're having them regularly, we are talking about fabulous stuff, encouraging them, talking about what they've done well, asking them how they're doing all of these things have nothing to do with these difficult conversations that we're talking about. And one of the things I say is like be interested, instead of interesting. Okay. And So what I mean by that is we hear it all the time. I don't know what to say, okay. And I'm like, I don't care if you don't know what to say because it isn't about you. It's about them. You're there to listen to what's going on as well as talk, obviously you might have something to say. But what I mean is, is that a lot of the business owners are putting themselves under such pressure for like this is a one to one. I've got to come up with something. It's like, no, you don't this is a conversation. This is a way of getting information as well, you know, like it it's a two- way thing but it's really giving them the opportunity to speak because they don't get to hear you and listen to you or you don't get to listen to them. So how about we just listen more than anything, find out what's going on for them. So when we when we say, oh, I don't know what to say. I'm like, no, hold on, be interested. Not interesting. And then suddenly all you got to do is ask a really nice question. And initially they might have the look of shock on them on their face because you've never listened to them before and you've worked on in with their your laugh and your list of things you're going to tell them. But that's like it's that's in the too difficult part for me going in and saying how's it going and zipping your mouth shut and listening and drinking coffee and really paying attention to them is actually much easier. They're trying to give them stuff and they don't even want stuff. What they want is to be her, so be interested in them not trying to be interesting as yourself.
IAN
Brilliant. Absolutely love that one that made such a big impact at the at the client intensive we had and people taking it away and the feedback that we're getting now from the guys on. Oh my God, thanks very much for that framework and helping me through that cause it is can be quite a nervous thing and just as a point to note if you are having a difficult conversation or you need to have a difficult conversation. Slide your podcast scale rule back to Episode 144, where Julie and I had a great conversation which in actual fact was the most successful IT Experts podcast in history. Wasn't it Julie, and I don't think you've ever told me or resemble from that. Well, it was absolutely. Anyway, episode 144...
JULIE
You didn't like that, did you, ‘cause it was one with me.
IAN
Part of having a difficult conversation with play with...
JULIE
Yeah. So if it does get difficult then. It just stays like...
IAN
Stop it, go and listen to that podcast and that will give, that will give you the framework for that right.
JULIE
For one...
IAN
Okay, we've talked about why you need to we talked about the good, the bad, the ugly. How on earth do we get started when we get to start talking to our team. What do we need to do, Julie, give us a process, give us a mate, give us something to do help, okay?
JULIE
So the first thing is go with the mind of like interested, not interested. That's number one and I they do it in a coaching style. Okay, now we talked about this in in our intensive. And you can Google the grow model and I do stuff on the grow model. But what we're talking about in the what I mean by coaching style, just as a in this podcast that says that we're using that listening skill, but we're using a framework where we're asking them, you know, what's going on you, what are you trying to achieve, what do you want to achieve and where are you now? Okay, so there's like goals and then there's the reality of where you are, let's say now when we do that, we balance that with asking all these questions good questions and not filling in the gaps for them listening what we're actually doing is we are you know we talked about earlier on about teaching them to fish and cream their capability.
This is helping them to think about what's going on for them and to do it in their own head rather than you just telling them. So you're asking what do you want to do, where you think you are, what do you think you need to achieve and they are contemplating that you're working that through okay and then helping them to understand more. What do you think you could do about that, what are your options for that? Okay, so then we're bringing it to them, taking responsibility for thinking for a start again. Remember, here we are asking the questions. We're not necessarily giving them the answers. So we're bringing their skill level of problem solving at the moment, they're focusing on their own stuff, but we're helping them to problem solve how they can do things differently or better and whatever that goal might. And then we're going to get them tied down to, okay, what are you going to commit to for the next week, two weeks. For how long we have our next one to one. Now using that kind of coaching style will mean that the conversations you have are not based on you the conversations you have are building capability. You're listening with empathy about why and what and you can pop in some ideas in there. If you want to.
But what's happening is, is that you're really letting them speak, and that's so it's missing in a lot of what's going on. And so when you do this also, you are empathetic you appear at least like you care, let's say yeah, but also the other thing is, is you're meeting them where they are. You're not dialing in saying do this, do this do this or I'm better than you. Ohh I can do that easily or whatever it is you're understanding them you're walking next to them. Imagine when I say, meet them where they are walking next to them and helping them along that journey. And that's what they need from a leader they need you to be able to stand by them and watch them grow. You know, like, you know, when the baby starts to walk, you don't literally say, don't worry about it. I'll do it for you, you sit down, you know. You don't do that, you say come on I'm going to hold your hand. And I'm going to walk with you there or when you're on their bike, you know when they're trying to get to ride a bike, I remember that. You know, you're on the back. Just keeping them steady. But you're not pedaling for them. They have to do it themselves, and then they ride them by themselves. And so in these one to ones think about how do I help that person to help themselves. And not go in with ohh I just need to tell them stuff. Yeah. And you will sometimes. I'll say, I don't know. What should I do or you not to tell them about the company vision and all that sort of thing. But when you're looking at growing people, you know when we want to build capability and autonomy, it's really about helping them to grow themselves as well. And it's so nice to do because you can not sit back and drink your coffee, but you're if you're paying attention, you really listen to them. They are going to be so much more respectful of you, so much more engaged in whatever you're trying to do in your business and you will find that they will start to come to you with ideas, they will start to go, can I do this? Would you mind if I took this on or I'm ohh, by the way, while you're on holiday. I did this, you know, and in fact we had that in one of our pubs yesterday and one of one of your members went on holiday and came back and something was done and he couldn't believe had been done. And we're like, oh, that's amazing how is that you know, and he talked to them about that’s something he wanted, but he. Believed that they would go ahead and do that without him even asking, they're like, oh, we've changed this and it was amazing. And so that's what happens when you conduct it in a coaching style. You take the pressure off yourself. You're genuinely empathetic. You don't go in with a this is a difficult conversation, or a negative, or I'm here only to point out what they did wrong. You're there to grow them, you’re there to help them and to awesome.
IAN
Fantastic. Absolutely love it. And you know, and the first step to commitment book that meeting. But that first meeting get off this podcast book. That first meeting tell him is going to be a monthly think only needs to be 15 minutes to start with you don't have to do the goal setting you don't have to do the whole strategy thing you don't have to do absolutely everything but the first step is just to book that meet...
JULIE
And don't pull it out...
IAN
Yeah, and don't pull it out and keep to it and follow a framework that we've that we've covered off today, Julie. Brilliant show as usual. Loads of Nuggets, loads of things for everybody to think about. Just before we say goodbye. What's the top tips? What's the summary for you on this episode that people need to do and take away?
JULIE
Okay, I've got a couple of top tips and then one thing I haven't mentioned that I really want to mention. Okay. So remember, don't be scared. It's not about you, about them. Okay, so make sure that you're thinking it's a positive thing and you get it in your diary, don't avoid them, that's the other top thing. As we've already talked about and just think about what I said about the value that other people will place on you listening. Okay, but the thing, I think that I want to say that I didn't say. Which is we've talked about one to ones and it makes them sound very formal. Okay, but what I want you to think about is that you can do this without formality as well. So a one to one could be you're sat in the car, going somewhere. Just listen to them. Okay, it could be you're in the coffee shop or you just want 2 minutes. Yeah. Find times to take the pressure off both of you by not having necessarily just form 1 to it once a month, once every two months or whatever. But literally use this in all of the times that you're there. Just have one to one, just watch people and think I need to have a conversation. I need to hear what they've got to say. I need to find out what's going on with my team and just let yourself off a little bit and do a 5 minutes here and there and everywhere and don't make it like something where you go with your clipboard, just be you and listen.
IAN
And be interested, not interesting. Absolutely love that. We need to put little trademark, mate, Julie as usual.
JULIE
Put that in mind.
IAN
Exactly. Thank you again for your help and support, putting this show together, it's been an absolute blast and I know that everybody out there in the channel is going to absolutely love it and we'll catch up with you soon. See you later, Julie. Take Care now.
JULIE
Take care, bye.
OUTRO
Hang on a minute. Just before you go. And if you're curious about how this episode links with your ability to scale your MSP to a million or if you're already there, accelerate to five, then we'll invite you to come and take the MSP marketing quiz. And in just three minutes, you're gonna get a 300 and seat for your scan of your business, where you can identify the one or two tactics that help you find more time engaging along your people and help generate more leads in your MSP. It's really simple. Just click on the links in the show note here. And if you have enjoyed this episode, we'd love to get some feedback from you by means of erasing your view on Spotify, for iTunes or your podcast platform of choice, we really appreciate every single one. Now you can go and enjoy the rest of your day. And we look forward to know and connecting you soon. All the best.
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