EP267 - Inside GTIA with CEO Dan Wensley and Ian Luckett

IAN: In this episode of The IT Experts Podcast, we go under the hood into the detail of GTIA, the Global Technology Industry Association.

INTRO: Welcome to The IT Experts Podcast, the only podcast to help MSPs scale to 1 million, and if already there, get to five and go faster. At the end of the day, isn't it all about building a business that works for you rather than you for it? I hope you enjoy the show.

IAN: So good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Welcome to the IT Experts podcast. It's great to have you all here today, and we've got a really special guest. We've got Dan Wensley, who's the CEO from GTIA. Good afternoon. Good morning to you, Dan. How are you doing?

DAN: Good morning, Ian. It is morning for me here in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, but I know many folks around the world hopefully will tune into our conversation. So, good afternoon, good evening to you as well, sir.

IAN: Fantastic. Well, it's great to have you here. And, you know, we've got a lot to cover today. We're going to be talking about GTIA. I'm so sorry. I still got this COMPTIA thing going on in my head, and I know people will have it for such a long time. But I'm really trying hard with that translation. Great to have you here. Amazing to have you on the show and kind of share with the amazing listeners that we've got, on The IT Experts Podcast all around the association and what's going on. It'd be interesting to hear your insights as well. So, give us a bit of backstory, Dan. Where have you come from? What's your history in the channel? What have you been up to? And I normally say at this point, who are you, what'd you do? And who'd you help?

DAN: Great question. Well, I've been a 30 plus year student of this industry. I've been blessed to have had a, just an incredible career inside the IT services channel. And we can say the word CompTIA because I was a member of CompTIA for 20 of those 30 years. Excited to talk to you today about the, you know, the change with the rebrand and the rededication to the membership on a global basis, under GTIA. To give you a little background, I have been, as I mentioned, blessed, and a student I really think of this industry for the last 30 years, working with some of pretty successful emerging vendor technologies. But for me it's always been about the evolutionary change of our industry from the early days of reseller to value added reseller to solution provider. And most notably, I think for many of your audience, you know, the transition from solution provider to managed service provider. We were at the forefront of that, you know, the two fundamental technologies being the PSAs of the auto tasks, the ConnectWise of the day, and us on the RMM side where I was, vice president, sales and marketing at level platforms for seven years worked alongside Rob Ray, who are brought into the industry. Many of your audience would know just a great group of folks, and that was an exciting period, I think, and we're seeing a lot of that mirror in, in what's happening today. Went on to be CEO of scale pad. Most recently. And just prior to that, was in cyber with Collin Knox, a past portal. So I've been blessed to be in this industry for a long time. You know, a lot of events, a lot of trade shows, a lot of breakaways and channel cons and excited for the future, both the industry and GTIA.

IAN: Excellent stuff. As we say in the UK, there would be a Boy Scout arm full of achievements and all the different things that you've done in your life going down both your arms, which is amazing to have that here today. Briefly for people who probably been living under a rock, I'm going to suggest, what is GTIA?

DAN: Yeah, great question. I mean, GTIA today is the Global Technology Industry Association. We are a nonprofit, fully funded, and we'll talk about how that came to be nonprofit trade association with just a clear mandate to be where the IT community connects and grows thanks to the endowment, and the success of the CompTIA transaction. So what occurred was, and again, I served it as a board member of this organisation about 12, 13 years ago, for a period of three years. And at that time, and right up until the transaction of CompTIA, we were of two mines or two businesses. One on the certification and training side, which was the revenue generator for the nonprofit, and the other was the dedication to the membership side in the IT services community. With the sale to private equity of the certification and training business as well as the brand CompTIA, all of that fund and money came into the new organisation, which is GTIA, which I was blessed to join as CEO in May of this year. So GTIA you know, we're coming up on our one year anniversary as an organisation. It'll be, January 9th of 26 will be our one year public recognition of GTIA. But this organisation has been doing, you know, a lot of great things for the IT industry, for the last, you know, decade, number of decades. And we're excited with the new focus, for the channel moving forward.

IAN: Amazing. Really direct question, why should MSPs care about GTIA and why should they join and embrace and get involved in the community for those who are not involved in it? What's the kind of benefit for them?

DAN: Yeah, I mean, I'll talk about the benefits of GTIA. That's vast, but I think I'll key in on your, on the words that you used, which is community. One of the attributes that, that helped me in my career and helped, you know, and I saw it firsthand, tens of thousands of MSPs around the globe has been the word community. Our industry is unique because of certain attributes of technology innovation change in buying habits of our customers, the SMB market, change in the business model of IT service delivery. The success I've seen in this industry, from the vendor side, from the MSP side have been those who have embraced community. Yeah, frankly, learned and worked with their competitors. But most importantly come together as a unified group. And this is where GTIA and there are many great communities out there. And the first thing I would say is whatever you're in, whatever your technology stack in each of those incredible vendors offer great community opportunities. And I would encourage all of them to be a part of that. Yeah. We at GTIA still go to PAX eight Beyond, IT Nation, Kaseya Connect, enable, empower, and all of the other peer groups that are out there. We're a participant in. Here's where we differentiate. And here's where we provide incremental value to every IT solution provider on the planet, which is we are completely non-for-profit. We are completely unbiased, we are completely self-funded. We are here to serve. And again, I've been a vendor for 30 years. I understand that the desire to serve, our partners as a vendor, but I've also got to hit a revenue number. I've also got to, so that comes with, a double-edged sword. We embrace all of that and we provide completely unbiased research, data, insight, and most importantly, the forum to come together and communicate as a community and share as a community with no selling requirements on the table. And that is unique. That has benefited me. I said absolutely as a member of this organisation. So be a part of other communities. But if you're missing out on the three and a half million dollars in research that we do every year, our great analyst, Carol and April and her team, Stephanie and our member education team, like the resources are so incredibly vast here at GTIA and my biggest mandate is to make sure they get utilised more than they have. There's tens of thousands using them, there should be hundreds of thousands.

IAN: Yeah. I must admit, whenever I come to an event, you always look and you sort of think there's a bit of, it's a bit of overwhelm for me and I'm not an MSP, so there's a lot of value in there. It's kind of picking out the things that you need to focus on to push your business forwards. The events are obviously one of the main things we'll talk about, amir Con in a minute, which has just been over the last couple of months, it'd be great to hear your summary on that, if we can manage to squeeze that in with everything that went on. Interesting question. I asked our community, about last year, I think it was, I think there was about just under 60 MSPs in the room. And I said to them, Hey, I'm out there, talking to the vendors, other MSPs, event organisers, spreading the word as you sort of said, you know, this is an incredible industry to be in because of that community. I've been in other industries, and if this format was in the other industries, there'd be dead bodies everywhere.

DAN: Yeah.

IAN: It just, it just wouldn't work. But it's incredible and, you know, like yourself feel super grateful to, to be part of that and to help people, you know, move from technical business owner into the, you know, a leader as it would be. But I asked them. What do you want from events? What is it that you get when you attend industry events and the room was silent, okay? And I thought, this is going well. And I said, what's going on guys? Come on, talk to me. Talk to me. And two guys, two guys spoke up and they said I want to go to an event. And they were actually from the same company, which was quite ironic. And I want to learn about kind of what's going on. I said, all right, come on let's get this out on the air. Why are the rest of you not going to CompTIA? The Managed Service Summit, you know, the MSP show and all of these other events that are going on. And they said, resounding, I'm too busy. Now, what's really interesting for me is that they're too busy to go because they don't see it as a priority. Now, is that wrong with the marketing for these events the community? Have they got bad press that they're a waste of time? Because you and I both know that at the end of the night when you're having a beer, they're all going, wow, what a great day. I've learned this. I'm going to go and look at that. I'm going to take away this. I'm going to take away that. How do we help aid the community get bigger by, you know, getting more people to come to these events? And is that a challenge that that you see out there?

DAN: Well, there are hundreds of events, first of all. So, this is what I admire about the MSP industry for the last 20 years. I don't know how they run their businesses. Ian, like it is incredibly, they've got customer needs and desires. They've got the latest in technology they have to stay aware of. What I heard them say to you was, we're busy, we're working in our business, not on our business. And that, I mean, that is just a common theme. We're all just working in our businesses and it's very difficult and a hard discipline to say, I've got to step back and I've got to work on the business, not in the business every day. And for MSPs, that is an incredible challenge.

IAN: Yes.

DAN: But what I love about this industry is if you don't do that, you will not be certainly best in class and arguably, if you hadn't stayed educated and stepped out of your business, you would've missed the cycle around cyber, managed services, internet, like you can keep going back.

IAN: Yeah. Yeah.

DAN: It is almost a requirement of being an IT service provider or an MSP and in this industry. That you do stay aware and communicative. And that's why I say I'm a student of this industry after 30 years of being in it, because I'm learning every single day. I was at an event last week and I learned something new, an old gray haired, 30 year veteran of this, I'm picking up. So it's a hard thing to do, but I think they do it organically because, you know, they're not running the same as four hundreds, they were running 30 years ago. They, they're running, you know, new technology. So they are doing it. Get out, be best in class, be a part of your peers. And this is what I love about what we do at GTIA. There are ways to do it without going to an event as well, channel Con, the two events we do in EMEA, north America and all of our community meetups, those are all great and, but, there are webinars, there are podcasts, there are tuning into what we're doing here today. Your audience that you, so the point that you got them into a room or had that conversation is proof to me that they are staying inquisitive.

IAN: Yes.

DAN: If you can make time for a couple events, go, but there's lots of ways to do it. Your great podcast and others is a way to do it. Thank you, stay educated, take advantage of what's available to them. And I think they are doing that frankly.

IAN: I think that's a really interesting, you know, you've got to stay ahead of the game and it's, I mean, you almost insisted then if you want to stay ahead of the game. I mean, at the minute, we've just got this whole sh, the biggest shiny ball of all this AI, you know, it's just swallowing up people's time. You know, don't worry about scrolling on TikTok and Facebook and all of that sort of thing. All of these tools out there. I mean, when I was at a part, it wasn't your event, a particular event. This year it was like every single person was selling AI. Well, most of them probably weren't selling ai, but they're just jumping on the bandwagon. So listening to that authority I think is really important. So what's going to help you move the business forwards, because what we are hearing and what we're kind of like sharing with our clients is that if you are approaching AI to operate your current business model, you're going to be dead. You know, you've got to look at AI as an enabler to help your clients achieve more so that they can then become a, you know, look at the pandemic. What did that do? That was a seismic shift in, in technology needs. And MSPs just went, yeah, okay, well I'm not going to walk the dog anymore. I'm going to go and do some more managed services. And they, without, you know, without choice they had to do that. So, you know, that need to get out there and listen and learn about the one, you know, those, those events. And as you say, you know, GTIA is multifaceted with that. Let's talk about EMEA con big event down in London. The most expensive parking I've ever known in my life, by the way, Heathrow Airport. I worked at Heathrow for many, many years and, a, have a love hate relationship with it, but an incredible venue, same. What's the highlights from that, Dan? That was such an event, wasn't it?

DAN: Yeah, it was. And we are coming off the heels, again, from the global perspective, channel con in North America was earlier in the year, in the summertime. And we set out as GTIA to set a new benchmark for Channel Con. And I, again, I've been attending as a vendor sponsor, not even sponsor as a vendor member of CompTIA. I've been attending these events for 20 years. I have missed what we call August 1st Long weekend here in Canada for the last 20 years. Much to the chagrin of my family and kids, but it's an important event and we as GTIA needed to set a new foundational benchmark moving forward. These are, you know, with all the community meetings that we do the meetups around the globe, channel con needs to be, you know foundational in what we're doing. And we kicked that off with Nashville, just a phenomenal event. And again, feedback from the community was overwhelmingly positive. And we set in some real foundational from the entertainment to the keynotes to most importantly the content, research and collaboration. And then Channel Con EMEA was our first time in Europe doing one like this. We had done certainly community meetings, and we learned a few new lessons that we, we are fixing already going into 2026, but most, yeah, the certainly, we have a meme going around where next year if we did it in the same location at Heathrow, we were just going to give everybody a boot of their car and we could open it up and you could have your booth right in your car, thanks to that venue. But, you know, that frustration aside it was an incredible event. I think Stephen Fry and Sir Bob Geldof were two of the best keynotes I've personally seen in 30 years. And I'm not saying that to be bragging about our own event, but man, they were good. And we invested in bringing them in to set the right caliber and tone. So we are excited with what we are foundationally able to build with Channel Con in 25 and, we're in heavy, heavy planning for 26 right now. We'll be in downtown London in November for Channel Con EMEA right at Park Place there and we'll be in San Diego in August for Channel Con North America.

IAN: Yeah, no, I met, I actually bumped into Bob Geldof when, MSP Global a couple of years ago. And literally he was having lunch with him just as about he was to speak then. So, you guys did a good job interviewing him. He's not the easiest person to interview. And when he decides to go the questions going left and he decides to go, no, do you know what I'm going to go right. Yeah, it's like a...

DAN: Yeah.

IAN: You got to train that one, which is always interesting. So, great event, some great speakers, some great insights there, which is good from a, you know, research point of view as you mentioned on already.

STUART INTERRUPT: Hey, just a quick one from me, for everybody that's listening, Stuart here. If you're serious about growing your MSP, but you're not sure what helps right for you, then just grab our ultimate MSP Growth Guide. It's a really simple way to check out what's out there for support that could really help you work. There's no fluff. There's no filler, just facts or alternatively, if you want to meet us face to face and see how we do things up close, come along to one of our events. They're regularly put on, they're all in the links below. Go check them out, and now it's back to the show.

IAN: Thanks, Stuart.

What's your plans for 2026? What we expected to see coming up new and fresh or, you know, or maybe just, you know, sharing with people what's already under the hood as we kind of said at the beginning that they don't already know is there.

DAN: A couple things. So one is the alignment between the GTIA staff and our membership. There's a common goal around growth. All of us want and see the opportunity to grow and again, as a 20 year member of this organisation I know the value of it, but it wasn't big enough.

IAN: Yeah.

DAN: There was, you know, the, we need more voices and to your earlier point, I think their AI has accelerated the change, which we've always been constant in this industry, but it's accelerated. There is no bigger time, in my personal opinion, to be a part of a community than today.

IAN: Yeah.

DAN: If you'd missed a couple of events or, you know, some cycles back in the managed services day, oh, that's okay. You could catch up and become an MSP, you know, next month. You can't do that anymore. With AI, it's impacting every, every aspect of the industry and the world. So we're excited about making sure that we are providing first and foremost the platform. Yeah. The resources and the communication capability that we can bring to bear around AI, still around cyber. And we want to, again, grow that. So we have three very clear mandates. We putting the right people together, the right resources, defining the community. And really focused on advancement, focused on growth, and focused on outcomes for all of our members. And that'll be for the IT service provider, the vendor community. And what's going on in the industry is vital. So we got to be aware of it.

IAN: And you know, that's a really great point about, you know. Because the speed of technology is now moving at lightning speed. You know, you just, just six months out of not going to an event, keeping in touch what's going on, whether you are on LinkedIn or newsletters or whatever it might be. That's a long time. That's an awful long time to kind of hang around hang around and do nothing. So here's a question for you.

DAN: Sure.

IAN: How do you think, you know, I'm not technical luckily because I, that means I can get away with saying so much stuff and people ridicule me and I still get to hold my head up high. But, you know, we talk about the shape of the MSP. What it, you know, what is AI going to be doing to the MSP? How does it affect and, you know, help their end customers. What's your view on the model and the configuration, the way that, you know, MSP IT support businesses have been working for the last, you know, maybe five or 10 years. What do you think the future looks like? If you had a crystal ball, what's the things they need to, you know, focus on to, to stay relevant?

DAN: Again, I think often this industry is ahead of its skis and the good ideas are just a couple of years too early. So this isn't going to sound innovative because it has been around for a little while, but client success, customer success is at the forefront. We've gone through technology, innovation and adoption, and I'm going all the way back to the early days of internet. And getting it in there. We've done the conversion to cloud. We are still educating them on cybersecurity and the impact and the threat to their businesses.

IAN: Yeah.

DAN: And that will be maintained as an MSP value proposition, but what the customers are now facing, is all the same challenges around AI and cyber that we are as an industry, as an MSP. So focusing on their success, what not adopting AI for the sake of adopting AI. What is the success look like? What is the outcome you're looking for? Is it automation? Is it simply automation? Is it, you know, an ability to open up new markets or new revenue streams for the business. So I believe the MSPs who put the customer's outcome and success at the forefront and then apply the technologies to that, will win. Not just, Hey, we're moving you from a break fix model to a recurring revenue model where we can now, you know, automate a lot of our service delivery. That was an operational change. Now and again, this isn't innovative because we've been saying it for a long time, right? Sit on the right side, the same side as your customer from a technology perspective. I really do think we've got to go one layer deeper now, which is what are you trying to achieve as a business? And my job as an MSP is to help you apply technologies to deliver that outcome.

IAN: And I think that's where they get stuck a little bit sometimes, isn't it? So many MSPs are focused on selling the tech rather than the actual business outcomes. And we've all heard this term partnering with your MSP, but it's actually about partnering with your MSP, you know, with your end client, but it's actually about caring about your end client, isn't it? And understanding what business that they're doing. And I know I know at ScalePad that was, you know, through the veins of that business, wasn't it?

DAN: Yes.

IAN: Around the whole account management and kind of looking through that bit. So if, you know, people are listening to this right now and they're thinking, well, yeah, okay, I think I'm doing a good job. What advice have you got for them to kind of give them a bit of a checkup from the neck up that they may be not doing what they think they're doing, what does good standard look like in that these days?

DAN: It's in the eye of the beholder. So ask your customer, and if your customer is telling you're doing a good job, then you're doing a good job. If you are in, you know, insulated inside your business saying, hey, we're more operationally efficient than we ever have been, we're really happy with our technology stack. But if your customer doesn't care about that or see that as valuable, that's where it matters. So, simply ask your customer, what do you need? I, you know, I love the question you asked of the MSPs, like, why don't you do this? What do you need to get out of an event?

IAN: Yeah.

DAN: What do you need to get out of your MSP as a client you know what, how can I help you and then deliver against that. That guarantees a win. If the customer tells you what you want, what they want and you deliver it, your guaranteed success.

IAN: Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm sorry, I've just thought of a killer question, not for you.

DAN: Oh boy.

IAN: But let's see how this one goes. What's the biggest risk next year for MSPs? What are the things that they really need to make sure that they're looking at?

DAN: Ooh, yeah. With change comes risk but so does opportunity. So I think, you know, again, I have so many PSD flashbacks to the early days of MSP. Those, and I'll tell you the one lesson from the early days of the MSP conversion that I carry forward is we knew what ultimately the perfect MSP would look like, the five nine SLA. You know, the majority of revenue coming in on a recurring basis. Your customer's happy and more efficient and all of that. What we didn't do as good a job of is defining the path to achieving that.

IAN: Okay.

DAN: In a methodology way, in a methodical pro. Not just go from, oh, I'm break fix today. And I'm an MSP tomorrow with this business model. That was a big heavy lift. AI, internet, cyber, cloud. Yes, it's all accelerated, but you have to take one step in front of the other to, in order to get to the ultimate goal. We're not going to move to an agent AI model tomorrow. It's going to be a process. So I think. What I've learned from some of the hypes that we've, or the cycles of technology that we've gone through, Ian, over the last number of decades, is understand the process to get there, the go to market strategy rather than just the outcome, because if you swing for the fences without a bat in your hand, you're not going to hit it.

IAN: Exactly that. And it's going to be, you know, it's, you know, we talk about it all the time. It's the right thing in the right order at the right time, you know, and you've got to trust this process. You know, I say many times, you know, I think King Herod was the OG of business development, this stuff hasn't changed. Stuff's come with it, right? And there's always going to be bad guys and good guys and marketing and sales and all of that great stuff. But it's, you know, you've just got to trust that process. And, you know, we talk to many MSPs. And you're talking to them and they don't know their numbers properly. They don't know their, you know, what their customers are feeling. And it's like, come on. You know, this is, you know, if you had that experience the other way around from one of your solution providers, you absolutely wouldn't be happy about it. So why are you allowing that to go on in your business? Which is kind of like crazy, isn't it?

DAN: Yeah, it sure is. Yeah, it really is a lot of challenges out there for all of us.

IAN: Yeah, there is, and you know, as you say, sticking close to the, to the community. So if, people have been sparked an interest and want to learn a little bit more what's the best thing they need to do, and we can put some links in the show notes and all of that kind of great stuff here. But, you know, if they're saying, look, I'm busy, I can't really come to this, or I haven't got time to come to that, I don't see the value in that. What's your advice? What process do we want them to follow, Dan?

DAN: GTIA.org and if you can't make an event, that's okay. We both, I think both of us, you would encourage folks to do it, because there's nothing more valuable in my experience than face-to-face communication and iteration. But at the very least. You must stay aware of what's happening. And I think there is no better resource, frankly, in the industry than GTIA. Again, we spend millions of dollars on research to help the IT service provider, whether it's hiring practices, operational efficiency, state of the SMB market and our annual state of the channel market. That resource that for me...

IAN: Yeah.

DAN: Was every reason I needed to be a member was that one report that Carolyn and the team put out. Yeah. To understand where we're going and what's happening. So there are just data points that are valuable to not only you as an MSP. They're valuable to your customer. Imagine the value if we're going to be better for our customers, be able to walk in and go. By the way, I can tell you what's happening generally in the SMB market and where the adoption curves are, and I can tell you that I'm a better MSP because I'm educated of these trends in these industries. And you can do that for, with membership at GTIA. So I think it's an incredible value. It's those who use it knows how to leverage it, whether it's our is o on the cybersecurity side. The, everything is there to gain value. So take advantage of it. It's an incredibly low cost membership for the value you get out of it.

IAN: And also go and, you know, go and chat with other MSPs that are in the community. You know, see what they're getting out of it and go and, you know, and learn from those guys as well, which is a really cool thing to do. You know, who doesn't like a referral. Right. And a bit of a recommendation.

DAN: Yes.

IAN: Brilliant show, Dan, just before we wrap up, talk to me about the GTIA Foundation, which is the, kind of like the heart of the organisation, isn't it?

DAN: Yes. So our Member driven philanthropy, and charitable organisation is incredible. We gave away over $2 million in 2025, and the board is approving even larger charitable donation and giving moving forward. We're excited about that. So that's all member led. Again, we are blessed with the endowment to be able to give back in a pretty meaningful way as a member. So the other reason to be a GTIA member is be a part of the solution where we can add some dollars to organisations that will help you know, the future for all of us.

IAN: Isn't it amazing that when you just start scratching the surface, the surface on that type of thing, and giving back to other people, you know, less fortunate. I was talking to somebody today who had troubles, you know, she's in the industry and she had troubles with her son's school had closed down and there was all sorts of other things. And I sort of said, oh, what's been going on? And she goes, we've just started a school. I said, you've what? She goes, we've just started a school for under for kids who can't basically go to school, because they're just like, don't get it. And they've created this. And I said, oh my word. You know, we've got, you know, big goals that people can hear about, you know, with regards to special needs and autism and stuff. But this is just amazing. And when you just start asking the question and opening up your heart and all that sort of stuff, it's incredible what, you know, kind of what comes out, isn't it?

DAN: Yeah, there's great work being done. I'll tell you, I mean, it, it it's meaningful to stand up on a stage and give away a $50,000 check to, you know, a deserving charity. But I'll tell you that the biggest impact and feedback is the smaller donations we do, that are exposed to us by members who say, Hey, we need a few thousand dollars just for some technology to go into a school that they're no longer able to fund. And those are quickly, the most impactful.

IAN: Yeah, absolutely.

DAN: So we're excited for that moving forward as well.

IAN: Yeah, that's amazing. Thank you very much for sharing that, that, that was brilliant. Dan, I've just got one last question for you, which is, a question I got asked on a podcast a couple of weeks ago, which I think is quite funny. You're on a spaceship, you're just about to get on this spaceship, and you're going to, you're going to, I'm not sure where you're going and I think you're going to be coming back. However, you're going up the ladders and you turn around and as you turn around, there's all the MSP community standing there. What's the one bit of advice you got for them, Dan?

DAN: Get on this ship with me and let's get out of here.

IAN: I wasn't expecting that.

DAN: No. If they're staying, if they're staying I would, say, I mean, again, I think I mentioned this earlier, Ian. I attribute being a student of this industry for 30 years as contributing to success. I've had. Stay educated, stay inquisitive, and most importantly, stay together as a community. That would be my feedback. You know, keep doing what we're doing. This has been a hard road for so many, but there's so successful and those I've seen have success are the ones who, who stay involved, stay inquisitive and remain educated and giving back.

IAN: Yeah.

DAN: Which our members do so much to each other, so, stay connected.

IAN: Brilliant stuff. Love it. That's absolutely fantastic. Dan, great to meet you. Thank you very much for your time today and your insights and a bit of a giggle there at the end, which is what we always need in, in life. So wishing everybody at GTIA you. Wishing you all a very successful 2026 and looking forward to catching up with you soon. How can people get in contact with you, Dan, if they want to continue the conversation?

DAN: GTIA is GTIA.org. I'm on LinkedIn dwensley@gita.org, if you want to email me directly. MJ, the entire community, we're here to serve and help members. So, we hope to see you as a member soon and we're here to give back. So thank you for this, Ian. Very much appreciate the conversation today.

IAN: No worries at all, been good fun. You take care and we'll catch up with everybody on the next one. All the best now.

DAN: Cheers.

OUTRO: Oh, but one last thing just before you shoot off. And if you're curious about how this episode links with the ability to scale your MSP to a million or, or if you are already there, accelerate to five, then we want to invite you to come and take the MSP Mastery quiz. And in just three minutes, you're going to get a 360 degrees scan of your business where you can identify the one or two tactics that can help you find more time engage in, align your people and help generate more leads in your MSP. It's really simple. Just click on the link in the show notes and if you have enjoyed this episode, we'd love to get some feedback from you by means of a rating review on Spotify or iTunes, or your podcast platform of choice. We really appreciate every single one of them. Now, you can go and enjoy the rest of your day and we look forward to catching up and connecting with you soon. All the best day.