EP271 - Is Your MSP Giving You Groundhog Day Vibes with Stuart Warwick and Ian Luckett

IAN: If you're feeling like this year, this week, this month is Groundhog Day in your MSP, then this episode of The IT Experts Podcast is the one for you.

INTRO: Welcome to The IT Experts Podcast, the only podcast to help MSPs scale to 1 million, and if already there, get to five and go faster. At the end of the day, isn't it all about building a business that works for you rather than you for it? I hope you enjoy the show.

IAN: So good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Welcome to The IT Experts Podcast. Welcome back to the podcast lounge. Stuart, how you doing today?

STUART: I'm very good indeed. Good to be back.

IAN: Yep, it's good. Back into 2026.

STUART: 2026. Yeah.

IAN: Another year. Another load of opportunities for the whole community.

STUART: Huge.

IAN: Absolutely. Absolutely. However, bringing it back to basics, you know, the end of the new year, the beginning of the new year, it doesn't really matter what time of year it is really, we hear a lot of the time people do this, they go. Ugh, in a bad way. And it's the Groundhog day. It's the, are we doing the same thing again, you know, what's the old age? If you keep doing the same thing over and over again, expect a different result, you know, that is the definition of madness, isn't it? And you know, we hear a lot of MSPs who move forwards very fast. We see a lot of MSPs who move forwards very slowly, and we also see a lot of MSPs who just don't move at all. And this episode is, is if you need a little bit of motivation and to work out how to stop getting sucked back into that vortex and have those Groundhog Day vibes that you're doing the same thing over and over again. We're going to give you some motivation, some energy to get you moving forwards faster, aren't we, Stuart?

STUART: We are indeed.

IAN: What's your take on this? Because it's easy to say. You know, well do this and do that, and these are all the things that you need to do. But I suppose deep down, unless you've got, you know, that vision and that hunger and that passion to change, things aren't really going to change, are they?

STUART: No, they're not. And I think at this time of year back, coming towards the back end of January, the realities of the new year...

IAN: Yeah.

STUART: Have passed...

IAN: Dry January, excitement.

STUART: Dry January, and not everyone gets it, but there is that point and you make it. It's not just this at the start of this year, it could be any time throughout the year. You just have that ah, feeling. It's like, oh, same thing. Same complaints from clients or same problems, same issues with the team, same frustration with marketing, not enough sales leads. And it's like, Ugh, and it's okay. You know, we talk about, you know, people tread water. It's an okay treading water, and in some cases it supports a good lifestyle treading water. But actually when you peel back the curtain on life aspiration, what does success look like? Why did I start this 15, you know, 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago? Am I where I want to be? And I think there's that it comes back to that realisation of like, well, if I keep doing, as you said, what I keep doing, I'm not going to get to that place that I thought I would get, and I would be there by now. And unfortunately, there is a, it's a glass ceiling. Everyone goes through it, every business goes through it. It's a glass ceiling of you, the leader of your business, and also the glass ceiling of the maturity and structure of your business. And unfortunately, unless you decide to do something different about it, your business will stay the same. So your frustration that, ah, it's the same thing day in, week in, week out, how do I break it? It's like, well, we need to do something new. And so what could that be? That we could do new? And I call it. Actually cut the cord, because you are addicted to being the hero. Most of the listeners here are technical. They started their business because they love the tech. They love solving problems with technology for clients, and so therefore they like to be needed. So they're plugged into this need to their clients of being needed. So they're always available and then they learn, well, maybe I shouldn't be available on Saturdays and Sundays, and maybe I need to put some structure in place and the business gets a little bit better, but actually they're still addicted to that service element and there's nothing wrong with that, but you've got to decide what you are going to stop doing. And what you are going to start doing to actually get a different result from your business this year.

IAN: Can I just interject with something that's just flown into my peanut here and it's, you know, we're talking about this and, you know, the Growth Hub's got a lot of members now, which can all lean on each other and support each other as they do. But what if you're on your own? What if you, you're not in, you listening to this podcast and you run into your MSP and you've done all right and it's okay and it's paying the bills and it, you've got the half decent lifestyle, but you, what you've just said could frighten the life out of most MSP owners who are not connected to communities, who are not connected to incredible networks and things like that, so, you know.

STUART: Good. Good.

IAN: Watch out. He's come out.

STUART: Good. I'm glad they're scared because you need to be, because why waste the opportunity of an amazing business model that the MSP you know, business model is in something that you love doing. You know, who wouldn't pay to have a job that they love doing? And a business that they love doing that is. You know, scalable with without limit, it's only limited by us, by what we decide to do, what we decide to invest in. So good. So for everyone listening to this is going, wow, that's scary. I we, yeah.

IAN: good.

STUART: I get it but where do I start? Well, start doing something different, like listening to this podcast more frequently, reading some books, going on YouTube and learning about what you need to do and to step out of your comfort zone. We talk about this a huge amount, but if you want to break out of Groundhog Day, if you want to cut the cord from your dopamine fix to being, you know, needed by clients and putting your pants on, on the outside of the trousers and flying in them. Your team needs you to step back if they're going to grow and develop in their careers and their ability to support you further. If you are going to gain leverage of the resources you invest in day in, day out, which is your team and your technology, and go, do you know what, what's working, what's not working? And this comes into some of the solutions or the tactics that you can take about, how do you change this? You know, and part of it is stop, draw a breath and go, I've had enough. And it's that moment we need.

IAN: It's that off. It's that big huff.

STUART: Isn't it? Yeah. Ugh. Well do something about it. Don't just go, oh, go back into the trenches and...

IAN: Yeah. Yeah. I've got to do it.

STUART: Yeah, I've got do it. Word done.

IAN: You've got is horrible. Isn't it?

STUART: Yeah. If you've got two or three in your team, it's like, actually, how could I. How could they do some more of what I do and I can do some of the stuff that we never do. And should be doing, which might be going and seeing your clients more often. And talking to them about their need, which would perhaps give you more revenue and more profit, and then you can invest that differently. So it's really what are you going to do differently to not have Groundhog Day tomorrow and next week and the week after and next month.

IAN: And I can say this now because I know that this episode won't be going out until our client event next week. But you know, we, I'm doing a bit of work on a presentation about, you know, you are where you are today because of the decisions and the actions that you have taken so far to exactly, to your point. So what decisions and what actions do you need to take, but to do something differently, but. The decisions and actions that keep you in flow, so you might want to be a great. You might want to carry on doing the technical side of things. In that case, think about who can run the business better than you and employ them or find them or search for them. You don't have to, you know, it doesn't have to be a full, big hire. Or if you do enjoy going out and doing the account management and the sales, then how can you organise your diary so that you can have more of those relationships with your clients and you know, and then delegate and pass down it and no, let's not use the word delegate. Empower your team to take on some of the tasks that you were doing before, what we call 10 pound tasks, a hundred pound tasks, so that you can spend that time because you are where you are today because of what you've done in the past. And there is no one else responsible about that apart from you. Sorry about that. But it's the reality, isn't it? It's, you know, absolute reality. Absolute reality. Let's stop dragging them through the mud. Let's lift them up a little bit. I guess, the first thing is that, you know, how does this, you know, we've talked about that, ugh, the, you know, the kind of feeling, but what does, when you are that bottleneck, I suppose, and you are that element in the business, what does that do to people in the business around you, apart from kind of throttling growth?

STUART: Well, you are the influencer, you know, you are the influencer in your business, so they all look to you. So if you are, you know, you get what you put out. So if you are invisible, let's say in your business then your team will probably be invisible. They'll have their heads down. When you're not in the office. They might be asleep at their desk if it's quiet, because they're like, oh, I've got nothing to do. Instead of going, what can I do? What should I do? What's expected of me? Because, you know, I admire my boss and he motivates me. And because we have had that experience, we've had clients come in and say, I've just realised some of my team. I have a snooze for 20 minutes. If there's nothing going on and nobody around them says anything, they literally accept it. I was like, well, you're obviously, they obviously feel comfortable.

IAN: I remember those conversations.

STUART: Do you remember that?

IAN: Yeah, I do. Yeah.

STUART: And it's like, well, they think they can. Yeah, because there's something missing in your culture, your expectations, your there's something missing and they think that's acceptable and allowable. So, if you want to stop your staff sleeping while you are out, then...

IAN: Don't start putting those, those little things, having airports, these little pods so everyone can start sleeping, because that's encouraging the behaviour, right?

STUART: But yeah, you've encouraged it unwittingly that they think it's okay. So you need to pull them up you know, to know what's important or you know what's allowed and what's not allowed? Ultimately, what are the rules? What's the culture? What's the, you know, what's, how do we, how do we function here?

IAN: Right. That's great. So look, what can MSPs do about it? How do they build that confidence? How do they get started? I think that's the first question.

STUART: I think you all know what you need to be doing. But you might not have ever thought about how do I rank, or how do I crystallise exactly where I should start? And just start with a little audit. You know, look at each department, look at the help desk, looks at the projects team. You know, break it down. Look at the finance area, look at the sales, look at the marketing, look at the invoicing, the billing, and go, I know at five or 10. Is it a one? Is it a three? Is it a five?

IAN: Nice. Yeah.

STUART: What are you pleased with? Probably operations or probably score best, and actually if you then scored where you are, where you spend most of your time, and what makes you go ugh versus oh! Then think actually if I'm going to make a better business, what do I need to do more of? And what do I need to do less of?

IAN: Yeah.

STUART: Usually it's getting rid of some of the admin automating the billing saving time on, as you would say, the 10 pound tasks. And focusing on the hundred and the thousand pound tasks. It's as simple as that. But to do that, take an hour out, make that list as we just talked about. And then see what it says and then think, okay, how can I let go? And then I think the really critical thing is involve your team.

IAN: Nice.

STUART: Yeah. Having, having made that quick list and then gone in your team's probably three or four, maybe six or seven, you know, they know you, you know them and say, guys, we just need to stop. I've done some analysis. I realise that we need to let go of this and let go of that. Do more of this, do less of that. What do you think? And have a discussion. Now they'll have a different perspective, but you'll have involved them in the process. They'll buy in and you'll go, yeah, do you know what? I'm going to hand this billing protocol over to you. You're going to do that. I'm going to do this instead. That's a start.

IAN: And I just listened to what Stuart just said there. So stop, take an audit. It is going to be uncomfortable, right? It's not going to be pretty, you're going to look at it and go, well, you know, be really honest with yourself as if you're like reporting to your external board. But the reason that you are doing everything is because you are not involving your team. So if you involve your team, then magic does start to happen. It's quite incredible. Some of the team are not, will not be with you, you know, when the day comes, but some of them will be, and they want you to win. But if you don't involve them in the vision, if you don't involve them in you know, in your plans in what you want to do, then you are just, you are going to be dragging, like with chains and bars your team up a hill rather than all rowing in the same direction. Right?

STUART: And don't underestimate your team either because they want to get involved. And I remember., Some years ago, and it, and it happens frequently that, Andy, he was like, oh, I'm going to go back. We did a first growth planning session with him and he went back and it was like, involve the team. And he was like, oh, when do I do it? Because the phones were always ringing. Well encourage them and say, look, pizza's Friday. After work or we'll stop at 4:30. They were still there at 7:30 and he was amazed. And, he was the one that was trying to wind up the evening and they were still going. And when they'd done it again, in times they'd said, yeah, we'll come in on Saturday morning and do it. And he was amazed that they were that engaged to stay a) stay after work and b) sometimes come in at weekend and we're so intrigued, yeah, so motivated to work on the business and he sustained that and those, those original people five years on and now as part of his management team, and he's considering, you know, going down to three days a week. It's, you underestimate how good your business could be if you start to get out of the way and involve your people. And that's if you, if Groundhog Day keeps, keeps being a thing for you and that ugh feeling, it's stop, get some perspective, rank what's working, what's not working. Start to involve your team and magic will start to happen. If, and it's the C word, you are consistent. And that's why we do what we do at the Growth Hub because we force consistency onto our client. We call it follow the process. And they get it, which is why every 16 weeks they love coming to the intensive. We have a full house because they know we're going to reset, we're going to brainstorm, we're going to troubleshoot, we're going to inject new ideas, of which they are part of the process, of injecting new ideas and out of that melting pot comes when you chunk it down. Clarity again for the next 16 weeks. And we don't leave it that long because we check in at eight weeks and we have a week, no, not a week. We have a day every week where you can access more support and more structure and more accountability to stop, gain perspective and keep moving. And that keeps people connected to the trajectory of whatever success looks like for them. And it is a simple formula. It's eons old. It just works, because us human beings...

IAN: Easy as that.

STUART: Love structure if we're going to get out of, and also buddying up with budding up joining a community who are all seeking to do the same thing. Because on a day when you are not feeling, you know, a hundred percent, you only have to listen to somebody else who's like flying and go, oh yeah, okay, I feel better now and you're willing to go back into the melee of doing the stuff that is going to change the reality or the long-term reality of your business.

IAN: Question for you.

STUART: Yes.

IAN: What percentage of clients, new clients come in where they have our initial growth planning session.

STUART: Yeah.

IAN: And you say to them, they, a light bulb explodes in their brains and they say the words wow. I didn't realise how much of an involvement my team have on where I am today and where I want to be.

STUART: It's huge. Every single one of them.

IAN: Virtually every one.

STUART: Yeah.

IAN: It's unbelievable.

STUART: If they go back in and and they just realise that their team, well, in some cases is the asset that they've not been leveraging. And they've been they've developed a culture. You know, they've dumbed the potential of the business down sometimes by just being what they think is just too nice, too accommodating. Because your employees don't know, don't deep down know where that business is going. So, you know, it's a topic we talk about a lot is we're helping them step up and go, hey, I am the leader. This is what my North Star is. I haven't told you now I'm going to tell you and I want to involve you in it. And as a couple of guys yesterday were talking about they had a couple of people in there that they needed to get rid of.

IAN: Yeah, yeah.

STUART: That weren't fit for the journey.

IAN: Yeah.

STUART: Toxic was the word they were using on one in particular. And they've put their big boy pants on and followed the right HR process and that person is now leading the business.

IAN: Fantastic.

STUART: That's good for both parties.

IAN: Yeah, exactly. No, no. You know, there's a great analogies around that kind of all over the place. And that's how you keep consistent. Before we start to wrap up on this one, Stuart, which has been, you know, a brilliant show. How do we measure progress on this? So we've given some tips about how to kind of get started and the things you need to do. But how do they, how does an MSP know how if this is going to work or to keep that consistency up? Because otherwise what could happen might have happened sometime in the past, is you didn't have a way to measure it. You don't know if it's going to work or not, and then just fall back and you do the same thing you were doing before, don't you? So unless you can see that progress, whether it be pigeon steps, whether it be big leaps, whether it be whatever, what's the method of measurement for this?

STUART: It's not changed in centuries of doing this. It's, not me. I'm not that old.

IAN: I was just about to say, I can't wait for this one.

STUART: No, you write it down and you check in on it and it's like, well, have we done what we said we were going to do? It's that simple definition of done, isn't it? It is. And that's the process. It's the same with your staff. It's like, guys, are we on track and have we done what we still can do? Because if we haven't our natural, a natural inclination is to go back to what we know, which is...

IAN: Safety comfort zone.

STUART: It is comfort zone.

IAN: Yeah.

STUART: And it's and that's why I say you've got to cut the cord from that addiction to that dopamine that will keeps you doing stuff in your business as opposed to empowering and leading. And pushing the envelope on that, on getting out of your comfort zone and the whole team.

IAN: And when you've done that, what's life going to look like? How's, you know how if we sit here now in a year's time, after someone's listened to this podcast and they've implemented what we've been talking about, what's it going to look like?

STUART: Well, it'll show up in your numbers.

IAN: Right. Nice.

STUART: It always shows up in your numbers. Success, progress or lack of it. So it'll show up in your turnover. It'll show up in your gross profit. It'll show up in your margins. It'll show up in your time. Can you take that half a day or day a week off out of the business to a work on it? Play a bit more tennis, I don't know. Whatever you want to, whatever floats your boat, spend more time with the family. But in many cases it'll be measured in time, pounds, shillings and pence...

BOTH: And Bitcoin.

IAN: Just thought I'd bring you into the...

BOTH: 21st Century.

STUART: But yeah, it's, it will show up in your numbers, I think, bottom line and in your satisfaction. And the other thing also in a year's time is to take time out to then look back on what you've done this year.

IAN: Yeah, absolutely.

STUART: Because you'll absolutely, you'll be absolutely gob smacked with how much you've done.

IAN: Yeah.

STUART: And actually the satisfaction you'll get from that. And you know you've got one life. You've got one business you love what you do in this business. Yeah. And more importantly, if you want to stay in business, you need to carve out the time to work out how you need to evolve. Because this business is evolving, and I don't want to talk about AI right now, but it's on everyone's lips. 15, 10, 15 years ago, the concept of MSP managed service partner. Didn't exist. It was brand new.

IAN: Yeah. Yeah.

STUART: Didn't exist. If not, didn't exist. Everyone was break fix. And that was the thing of sort, how do I, what's this MSP thing? That's rubbish.

IAN: That's never going to work.

STUART: So what's next? But that's another podcast.

IAN: That's a lot of podcasts actually. I think so. Stuart, brilliant show. Thank you very much for your insights on that. I think that it's been great to help people kind of move the needle, move things forwards. So listen back to it. Take some notes, take some action. If you need a hand, what do they do?

STUART: Reach out.

IAN: Reach out.

STUART: Come join the community.

IAN: We're always, we're always here to help.

STUART: Yes, absolutely.

IAN: Lovely stuff. Catch up with you on the next one.

STUART: Thanks, Ian.

IAN: Cheers.

STUART: See you.

NEXT EPISODE TEASER: And just before you go, a quick teaser next week we have got a brilliant show lined up for you. Got Stuart back in the podcast lounge, and we're talking about why owner dependency could throttle your valuation of your MSP. There's some incredible tips and tricks in there that most MSPs don't even think about when they wake up in the morning. You're going to love that one. Tune in next week.

OUTRO: Just before you go, and if you're curious about how this episode links with the ability to scale your MSP to a million or, or if you are already there, accelerate to five, then we want to invite you to come and take the MSP Mastery quiz. And in just three minutes, you're going to get a 360 degrees scan of your business where you can identify the one or two tactics that can help you find more time, engage in, align your people and help generate more leads in your MSP. It's really simple. Just click on the link in the show notes and if you have enjoyed this episode, we'd love to get some feedback from you by means of a rating review on Spotify or iTunes, or your podcast platform of choice. We really appreciate every single one of them. Now, you can go and enjoy the rest of your day and we look forward to catching up and connecting with you soon. All the best day.